Any advice!?

[gunslinger]

Just found this site yesterday and what a great site! I have been looking for one of these for awhile now but I believe because now I need it it has found me. I am currently working in a spa and in the process of trying to find work somewhere else. I came upon a chiro office that is in need of a MT (lucky me!) they are interested in expanding this into chiro, accupuncture, massage, herbs, EO's, craniosacral, etc over the next few years. I am VERY interested in the position and have had 1 meeting so far and go back for a 2 this coming Monday. I got online to find information somewhere on how to go about making sure that I get a good relationship between the Dr.'s and myself. They graduated 2yrs ago (as I did) from school so neither one of us is very positive of how this relationship will work. I am asking for any advice or past experiences from those of you that have worked in a chiro or similar office before to pass on some info.  Like do I want a %, rent, by the session. Sign a contract that says I can't work in a 25 mile radius area of the office if I leave.How to handle pricing.And any other things that I should think of that I can't come up with because I have never been in a medical type office...Thank you!In need of suggestions

 

[CRACKberry!<3]

Hi, there.I'm glad you like the site.  I felt just as excited when I found it a few months ago. There is a lot of great stuff that goes on here. I would love answer all the questions in your post but unfortunately I'm in a time crunch right now - I'm headed to my chiropractor's office for an afternoon of sessions right now.  However, I just wanted to make sure to weigh in right away on one issue. It concerns whether or not to sign a contract about where you can or can not work if you quit. If this is an independent contracting situation ABSOLUTELY DO NOT sign such a contract. This would hamper your ability to make a living in your community if you were to leave and it would very definitely make you an employee and not an independent contractor. Of course, if you are going to be an employee that is a different thing!  Hope that is helpful. If you'd like to chat with me on other topics or more on this one feel free to send me a message personally.Good luck!

 

[spinner]

Any advice!?

dont sign a contract that says you cant work within 25 miles from there- most mt dont stay in one place forever and if/when you leave you wont be able to work in any city near you. if they are worried about competition, then they shouldnt be in business. even if your an employee- i dont think they can do that. its like saying if you no longer work at this restaurant- then you cant work at any within a 25 mile radius- its rediculas. I hope they are willing to negotiate.

 

[Francesca]

As for the non-compete, I would definitely NOT sign it.  I would highly recommend not following other advice that was posted that said to sign it and ignore it.  While it may be true that it's unenforcable, why would you even want to bring on a potential problem if the employers decided to drag you to court?  I have been in this situation before where I was asked to sign one and advised by some to sign and ignore.  I would not have been comfortable with that.  If I sign something saying I'm agreeing to something, I like to stand by my word.  It is a matter of ethics for me.  I chose to be up front and honest and say that I understood that they did not want me "stealing" clients, but that is not who I am and I feel if clients wanted to find me after a I left, that is entirely up to the client, but I would not actively recruit them.  I said that it was too restrictive for me to sign the non-compete and that I would rather be honest about it.  The owner was understanding, even though her attorney was not happy that she was not going to follow his advice.  I ended up not working there anyway for other reasons.  

 

[Pompal 09.]

Any advice!?

I have worked for a chiro before. At least in NY license laws, massage therapists are not allowed to share payment with a chiro or doctor. That is why there are only two options available, work as employee which means getting paid by the hour whether you have a client or not, or as an independant contractor which means the only thing you can pay the chiro is rent for the room. Your payments shoudl not be based on the hours you work....unless you go home during the time you dont' work. One of the chiro's I worked for only made me pay rent for the room while I was there. You can also make a monthly agreement with the chiro that you pay fo rthe room monthly like as if it were an apartment. For example you pay him $200 a month whether or not you use the room. Also you do not need to sign any contracts stating you will not work within any miles from his place of business. You are a massage therapist and he has a different business. As an independant there really is no need to sign anything, so if he requests it, refuse. It's more of a hassle. If he is hiring other massage therapists, one thing he may want you to sign is an agreement not to steal clients. That's up to you. It's immoral to do on purpose anyhow. Clients will leave with you if they like you enough to follow, but just don't steal.Of course, this is at least for NY laws. I do not know the specifics of the laws in other states but I'd imagine they'd be the same.

 

[Kailey R]

I rented space in a chiro office right after I graduated from MT school.  We worked out a % arrangement which required me to pay the doctor 15% of each client session.  It worked out great since I was just starting to build my business - made sense only to pay based on the actual # of clients I was seeing rather than pay flat rental fee.  If you decide to go the % route, make you sure you build in a limit on the contract.  I can't remember what we agreed upon for my situation but the idea is to put a cap on the amount that you end up paying the doc each month.  That way when you start getting really busy you get to keep more of your profits.Good Luck!JD

 

[What cookie...]

Any advice!?

Thank you so much for all of your advice! It has been helpfull. As for signing the contract I don't want to do so for all of the reasons posted above. Exactly how I feel KndeadedMassage! I am a very honest person and I SUCK at lying and etc and can't stand people of that sort...hard to find honest people now days though! Think of any others things I should think about please post it!Greatly appreciatedPS I have told fellow MT's about this site. Hopefully they at least check it out

 

[Cameron]

Any advice!?

I will probably find out Monday, why?

 

[GreenKitteh: Being Green]

I sublease from an acupuncturist and it has worked out really well. I have more freedom with my income than if I had agreed on a perceneforum.xxxe as an employee or something. In my opinion just paying rent and having set hours would be the best way to go. There's my 2 cents.  

 

[TheSoyEatsYou]

I just thought I would tackle a few more issues that you might like to hear some more thoughts on before Monday. As I said in my first post, I currently work out of a chiropractor's office. One of the first issues that arose for me was one of pricing. Because it is a medical office where I'd say at least 90% of the customers are getting their massage sessions paid for by insurance their is a definite limit to your price scale. The amount charged for a 1 hour session there is $10 less than what I would normally charge. I personally decided that to have a full clientele that I didn't have to create was worth it to me and went with their pricing system. Secondly, the issue of tipping has recently come up. I had a new client (friend of someone who has come in for years) who asked me after the massage if it was true that she was NOT ALLOWED to tip. It really caught me off guard. I said I didn't know of any reason she wasn't allowed to. I then mentioned that my belief is that Tipping is Always appreciated but Never expected. Basically, she had heard from her friend that they weren't allowed to tip because it was a medical office.  I immediately talked to the chiropractor who said he did not encourage it but did not say NO to clients who asked. Just another thing you might want to address early on because somehow people were getting the impression that they weren't allowed to tip. Another issue is of course how to get paid...%, set fee for room, etc. We worked out a perceneforum.xxxe split for every massage I do during business hours on his clients. Recently, I've also begun bringing in a few of my own clients on off business hours and we set an agreed upon flat room rate per hour regardless of how much I charge a client. One more issue has come up that has not yet been settled to my satisfaction. The chiropractor running this office does not set specific appointment times with clients. They come in as needed and because he is quick, people are usually in and out fairly quickly. However, we as the massage therapists do have set appointment times. The problem comes in when he runs a little slow and clients (who specifically did come in early) are late for their appointments with the massage therapists. That puts us behind and although I want the client to get their full session time I also don't want to go home late every night when I was ready on time. This happens because he (the chiropractor) believes people must get their adjustment first and massage second. We are currently discussing this issue AGAIN.So, this turned out to be more lengthy than I intended but I hope it is helpful.  Good luck!

 

[Jae]

Any advice!?

That is exactly the kind of information I was wanting to get! Thank you so much Vorehealer!In talking to them I am no longer working at the previous place I did. Now they are interested in me coming in sooner as a subcontractor (due to a system change currently going on) then becoming an employee in a month or so of the new system being more familiar to everyone. We are talking % on income I bring into the office. Details are yet to be sorted out. They seem very honest and nice. I am very anxious to start but at the same time very very nervous to not get myself into some kind of trouble that I find out years from now....Like the previous situation that I got myself into - long story.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Any advice!?

It's a hard call. But at least this time, you're entering into the negotiations with a bit of knowledge (and experience) under your belt. Please keep us abreast of developments. I'm sure someone here will be able to help again.As for payment: I'd much more prefer the rent optionn vs a % (which would probably be the billable limit per session minus their money/commission). I also like the idea of being IC vs an employee - that way you have much more control over your schedule (and are not limited to his clients).Best of luck.

 

[RedSnook]

Any advice!?

Welcome to the site.  It is a really great place!

There are a couple of other threads in this section regarding working with chiro's that might be worth your perusal.  One in particular was started by a chiro who wanted to know if the deal he was considering offering was fair.  There were a number of well thought out ideas that would be worth your read...(here's the link  

Fair Deal?
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1246

I would be very careful of becoming an employee of his business.  Often times MT's are overused and undercompensated, even with a well meaning chiro.  As an IC you have much more control over your business and schedule.  

Thinking down the line if you choose to leave and have clients follow you it might be worth discussing this eventuality with the chiro and decide ahead of time on how this will be handled.  It is much easier to work this out before it happens than when it happens.  

One way to approach this is to offer compensation to the office for anyone who would follow you.  Either a flat fee per client who follows or $10 for the first visit and $5.00 for the next six appointments booked within the first six or three months after you leave the office.  I would also work out how you would handle notifying the clients should you leave.  

Get whatever you and the chiro agree to in writing, it will save a lot of hassles later as you get to know each other.

As for insurance, it is important to know if you will have to wait on insurance payments or if he will pay you regardless of whether he gets paid from insurance.  

You will also want to know how the chiro plans on handling the clients whose insurance doesn't pay for massage.  Will the office handle collections or will it be up to you?  If collections are up to you -- how much authority do you have to set up payment/cancellation/non-payment policies for the work you are doing?

These are just a few things off the top of my head.