Charging for talent not time

[rukkit]

As a corollary to the 50-minute hour discussion, does anyone here charge a flat rate for shorter (or longer) sessions? I'm thinking for instance of people who do MFR or osteopathic techniques and are just done when the work is done and the fee has no relation to the clock.

Most of us are based on the clock. That isn't universal though. Get a massage in Hungary and there are therapists there who are shocked at our hourly rates ("Exorbitant!"), but also that we'd spend a whole hour with one person ("Overkill!")

Others who work with the body often work this way though it's relatively uncommon among MTs in North America. Chiropractors, for instance, charge for their talent, not time, so you could be with a chiro five minutes or twenty, depending on your needs and the chiro's mode of working, and be charged the same.

If you do this, what's your wording with clients?

Is this a paradigm shift some of us should consider and if so, how would you make that transition?

Any thoughts on this out there?

 

[F S]

Interesting concept.

Reminds me of the car mechanic that took a whack at the motor with a hammer and charged the client $500. The client was shocked -- "$500 for 30 seconds??!?!?!"

The mechanic replied "$5 for 30 seconds. $495 for knowing where to hit."

This kind of pricing will probably work in the therapeutic realm - someone looking for a specific need, hence the idea of one hour on one person being overkill. But for general maintenance and relaxation - it is all about the amount of time flesh is pressing flesh.

 

[ArielMarriane]

I am sort of in the process of doing this. I do active release techniques, and find that 30 minutes for a forearm, or calf, can be a little overkill when a person is coming to me for repeat treatments. I have started offering 15 minute ART sessions. I had to put in a time frame for my booking system, but basically the idea is you come in, I treat what I find, and what is asked for, and I am done when I am done. I haven't worked through all the kinks in this yet, so there may be problems I run into.

This is something I present to the client after their first 30 minute treatment, which includes assessment, consent, treatment, self care, and treatment plan. After the first session I have found that 10-20 minutes is more than enough, and I explain this to the client, that the next treatments don't need to be as long,and should they want, they can book an ART session, less expensive than 30 minutes (but still a premium for a short period of time) and less time. I explain I will work until I feel things have released, and they have felt a change.

Like I said, still working out the logistics, but I like it so far.

 

[cindlurvarchie]

I should add, I will not do 10-20 minute sessions for anything else but ART for one or maybe (huge maybe) two areas. If the client wants more of a typical massage, they must book 30 minutes or more. I will incorporate ART into my regular massages, but other than a warm up, and flushing out afterwards, all they get is ART

 

[Jerome-092]

I sort of do the session concept. My sessions run anywheres between 1.5hours and 2 hours max. I even like doing three hour sessions once I'm in the flow. That being said I book no closer than every two hours. So my sessions end up being about 1.75 hours. If no else is coming then I tend to run closer to two hours.

Jason

 

[Aundrea]

I sort of do the session concept. My sessions run anywheres between 1.5hours and 2 hours max. I even like doing three hour sessions once I'm in the flow. That being said I book no closer than every two hours. So my sessions end up being about 1.75 hours. If no else is coming then I tend to run closer to two hours.

Jason

I'm with you jason. I do the same and I've been very successful with this approach. Couldn't imagine doing any less than 2 hours. There are places in the world where even that's too short. Traditional Thai can last for 3 or 4 hours. Same with some Ayurvedic treatments. It just shows that in body work there are many approahces. As different as people themselves. One just has to find their niche.

 

[Fezzie]

My standard session time is 50 minutes. I do all MFR. I've been doing this length of session for years now, with an occasional double session (half session for kids). The decisions to make sessions 50 minutes in length was based entirely on finding an interval for sheet change over, scheduling, and collecting payment so that I can stay on an hourly schedule. In retrospect, it has worked well for me as well as my clients. I nearly never find that there is too much time or that they have received too much treatment. Even if I am treatming someone for an simple issue, there nearly always is a more extensive cause that needs to be traced and treated.

 

[anastasia198320]

My standard session time is 50 minutes. I do all MFR. I've been doing this length of session for years now, with an occasional double session (half session for kids).

Walt, you don't have trouble keeping it to 50 minute session? I have lots of trouble when using MFR keeping it to an hour or 1.5 hrs! I always say it feels like MFR uses a different side of my brain than swedish massage (intuition?) and when I am using the MFR side of my brain I don't want to "come back!" :

 

[heart.picklez]

maestra,

When I first started this work and the need to schedule so tightly was not a concern, I very frequently went over the hour (often WAY over), thinking that I needed to bring them to completion. This was true whether they were unwinding or just having structural work. You learn that you can stop an unwinding at an apporopriate point without doing a disservice to the process, just the same as you can stop a release and pick it up the next session. I felt that the need to do keep working loger was more about my needs than the client's needs. My need was to see this through, as things were so new. The client knew little difference, they just knew it was helping and they were fine stopping a session at its end time and coming back for more.

As for you not wanting to come back, I know that the pull is strong. Once you get the feeling, you don't want to give it up.

 

[B-Easy]

As for you not wanting to come back, I know that the pull is strong. Once you get the feeling, you don't want to give it up.

Wow. I am totally experiencing this with CST, especially unwinding.

Any specific advice for moving through it/getting over it?

 

[punchinf4fun]

Uh huh... handle the money part before you do the treatment. You and the client may be way to "altered" to handle it effectively afterward. :

I am, for the most part, doing a bit better with sticking to the time allotted. If I go over it's usually only by 5 minutes. Often because there's someone waiting, so it's imperative I not get totally lost in the work.

 

[Trina]

lol YES! For about the first time ever I accidentally let a client walk out without paying. It was craziness

 

[Oasis]

That has almost happened to me too!

After years of a strict 60 minute hour I decided to add 15 minutes to my standard session. Every 1 hour client gets a full 75 minutes of massage time. I'm mobile so I don't have to worry about scheduling breaks between clients in an office, but even if I did I would still do this and just book acordingly.
I rarely have anyone choose 1.5 hrs (Luxury issue I think) so I'm very used to getting all my work wrapped up in 60 minutes, I was surprised to find that this extra 15 minutes I have added makes such a huge difference! It feels so luxurious for me. I find it easier to achieve that 'zone' and have more time to rely on intuition and zero in on the real target areas in addition to the extra touches (more pampering time with the feet and hands for example). I love it, and now I can't imagine giving a good, thorough and detailed session without that extra time segment.
I think its great when a therapist can structure their own time in a way that really lets their talents in any given modality shine.

 

[KaNi]

I have always had a slower pace during my massges. 8) This is just my style and it works well for relaxation work, which is most of my practice. At the suggestion of a mentor, my "hours" have been 70 minutes long from the beginning of my practice. It still isn't enough for some massages but having that extra 10 minutes gives me more flexibility. And, it is a great selling point for customers.

 

[Stuart H]

75 minutes is a lovely session length. When I last updated my services page, I added a signature low back session at exactly that length.

 

[Sublimeonelove]

I am still in school, but if i go into private practice I have decided I will offer no less than 75 min. for a full body massage, but I'd prefer even 90 for full body. I don't plan on charging more for the 75 min. than a 60 min. though. 50 min. full body feels like factory work to me.
I'll do 60 min./30min. massages for specific limited areas, as long as it's not expected to be full body head to toe.
That said, I really hope it doesn't take 5 years to be in private practice! Ugh, 50 min. full body is killer.

 

[to be continued ...]

Charging for talent not time

Is this a paradigm shift some of us should consider and if so, how would you make that transition?

Any thoughts on this out there?

Jyoti and I discussed this on the phone a while back. I think she may have come up with some ideas as to how to implement it into her practice, but I am not sure.

What I do recall is that one important thing in implementing this idea would be to actually completely re-structure your practice. So, basically send out a letter with the information of how and why you are changing to this new method. That would include changing your website "look", so that when the client moves into the new frame of context, there is also a visual change that gives them secondary feedback as to "there is something different". this way, it's not just the same-o, same-o with new/different fee structures.

Does that make sense?

If not, I'll try to re-write it.

 

[PETER14]

Charging for talent not time

Jyoti and I discussed this on the phone a while back. I think she may have come up with some ideas as to how to implement it into her practice, but I am not sure.

What I do recall is that one important thing in implementing this idea would be to actually completely re-structure your practice. So, basically send out a letter with the information of how and why you are changing to this new method. That would include changing your website "look", so that when the client moves into the new frame of context, there is also a visual change that gives them secondary feedback as to "there is something different". this way, it's not just the same-o, same-o with new/different fee structures.

Does that make sense?

If not, I'll try to re-write it.

Hi folks! Sorry I'm late to the party (I just saw this thread LOL)

Long post. You've been warned :grin:

The transition is ALMOST complete. Pueppi has been more help than she knows We're still working out logistics, but here's what I have so far... please forgive me if it's a little chaotic.

Here's the OLD way (which unfortunately is still on the current website until we get all our ducks in a row with the new system): schedule and charge by time, and we use the time in any way the client wants. We did 60, 90, and 120 min sessions. Sounds great, worked great for a while. However, as my own education expanded, I'm deviating away from traditional massage modalities and starting to use those manual therapies more in combination with other tools and techniques. I'm also getting much more astute at assessment for different conditions, using vital signs, orthopedic and neurological testing, and right-left brain testing (I'll answer any questions on all that separately )

So anyway... I started to feel that what I've been doing is short of what I know how to do (and would really like to implement). I also wanted to do more than the fluff and buff. Not that there's anything wrong with a fantastic relaxation massage (you'll notice that I didn't 86 them from my menu altogether) but I felt the need to add. I also realized that when a client came in with some kind of problem or pain, their body's response to my treatment didn't always fit into the time we had allotted. I also started getting requests for 90-min and 2-hour pain management sessions which not only got kinda boring, but more importantly, I felt they might've been too much at one time for the client's body to handle.

So, enter the new system. It's 2 tiers. No longer am I going to try to handle doing a full body relaxation massage AND a focused address of the chief complaint in 1 session. Now, it's either-or...for both their benefit and mine. I did 86 the 2-hour sessions, and only existing regular clients who drive a decent distance to see me will get them upon request.

Relaxation Only (full body; no area of focus, stress relief only)
1 hour - $75 or $80 (not sure which yet - the price was $75 under the old system and there are several discount massage facilities in my area)
90 min - $110 or $115 (not sure which yet - current price is $100, $85 or $90 if they're on a regular pre-scheduling plan)

Problem-focused Bodywork (not full body; 1-2 areas of focus)
1st visit - consultation and detailed assessment/evaluation PLUS first (possibly abbreviated) treatment - $70 or $75
Average visit (every visit after the first one) - anywhere from $40-55, although this will vary widely depending on condition. The more complex and time-intensive the regular visits are, the more they'll cost. Right away, I'll kind of know what I'm dealing with - if it's a 15-minute laser protocol, it'll probably only be $25-30. If it's a TMJ procedure with lots of warm up and myofascial work first, it'll cost more like $70.

But, determining all that is what the first visit is for--I'll have a good idea of whether or not I can help them, what kinds of remedies will most likely be effective and how effective/potent they'll be, roughly how much physical labor it'll require, and how much time it'll take. At the end of the first visit I'll be able to say "OK, after this, your visits will only cost 'x' and plan on 'y' amount of time when working these visits into your schedule."

An average problem-focused visit will typically consist of an NMT protocol (with myofascial release, ART, Trigger-point, etc included), some heat or cold packs (depending on condition, etc), some cold laser, and if applicable, some cortical hemisphere balancing to effectively reduce the stress that downright causes a lot of these problems. Also, if applicable, we'll do some active care right there in the studio to rehab weak muscles, or I'll give them exercises to take home.

Clients can choose between full-body and problem-focused when scheduling their next appt, and they can go back and forth. They know themselves better than I do LOL. So someone who's been getting help with her carpal tunnel and is doing much better can schedule a relaxation massage for the next time.

(Also as an aside: I've considered not publishing the problem-focused pricing on the website, simply because it can vary so widely. I will say that it is less expensive than the full body, but that since each case is so different, it's impossible for me to know until I've actually evaluated them.)

Heh - I know that this is waaaay different than the average massage therapy model; in fact, I'm prepping myself for next year. But that aside, what do you all think?

Hugs!
~Jyoti