extreme non compete contract

[molly_m]

I'm considering a job as a massage therapist at a local upscale spa. Their no compete contract states I would not be able to work in a related field (massage) within a 25 mile radius on any existing client or anyone that MAY have been a future client for 1 year after I stop working there. Is this normal? Enforceable? Legal?

 

[Lee333]

Any "future" client!!!! Wow, that could be anyone, literally! My neighborhood is just crawling with possible future clients- it's a veritable infestation!!!

They can't very well keep people from seeing who they want to see- that kind of thing just irks me to no end. However, what they are most likely asking is that you don't solicit clients who come in via their advertising, reputation, whatever.

I think it is entirely ethical to ask that you don't try to solicit the clients of the spa, however, it sounds like the clause- from what you have written- is a bit vague. I would want some more clarification IN WRITING, and then decide from there.

 

[kicker]

If you sign it, you have legally agreed to it.

That said, it is very extreme. The 25 mile radius is huge, and obviously the "anyone who may have been a future client" is stupidly extreme.

The written clause needs to be changed and you are in a position to negotiate for a change.

 

[KRS]

Here are the exact words " The employee hereby agrees not to directly or indirectly compete with the spa for clients within a 25 mile radius of the spa during employment and for 1 year after. An example of "non compete" could be providing services in their area of expertise off premises to clients that otherwise could have been business for the spa. The services can include massages, skin care and nails."

 

[Propane Cylinder]

I feel like non-compete clauses feed into the idea of massage as an extravagance. I personally feel clients have the right to choose their health care provider, massage therapist, etc... I would never sign one.

But, I'll jump off my soapbox. :lipsaresealed:

I agree the wording of that clause is way too vague, and be careful of signing something like that.

 

[A Husband with Needs]

You might want to check with your state laws regarding non-compete contracts as they aren't legal in all states, even if you sign it.

 

[Christina d]

The main thing you need to know is that the amount of money in legal fees a company would have to pay out to chase you down to enforce their stupid non-complete is not worth it. I have friends who own sports performance facilities and used to have the trainers sign non-compete contracts until they finally realized that it was stupid because it never held up and it was to much of a hassle to track them down for the few clients that might leave if they quit or were fired.

patrick

 

[Nine]

Around where I live, this type of contract is pretty normal. Weirdly enough, I live in WI where most non-competes don't hold up in court. I worked at a spa that had a non-compete for TWO years and THIRTY miles once your employment is terminated with them. New owners took over and most of us quit due to their complete lack of business sense (among many many other complaints we all had!). Two of the ladies who had started their own massage businesses after quitting at this spa were taken to court. The non-compete didn't hold up, but it still ended up costing them thousands in legal bills.
Same thing happened to another local MT. The spa where he previously had worked at ended up dragging things out legally (their lawyer would write a letter to him, so his lawyer had to respond, back and forth, back and forth) which set him back over $3000 if I remember correctly.
So while it's true that a non-compete might not hold up in court, there are ways that - if they are petty enough - they can make you pay. Literally.

 

[Justin]

Around where I live, this type of contract is pretty normal. Weirdly enough, I live in WI where most non-competes don't hold up in court. I worked at a spa that had a non-compete for TWO years and THIRTY miles once your employment is terminated with them. New owners took over and most of us quit due to their complete lack of business sense (among many many other complaints we all had!). Two of the ladies who had started their own massage businesses after quitting at this spa were taken to court. The non-compete didn't hold up, but it still ended up costing them thousands in legal bills.
Same thing happened to another local MT. The spa where he previously had worked at ended up dragging things out legally (their lawyer would write a letter to him, so his lawyer had to respond, back and forth, back and forth) which set him back over $3000 if I remember correctly.
So while it's true that a non-compete might not hold up in court, there are ways that - if they are petty enough - they can make you pay. Literally.

I've seen this happen, too - also in WI.

If you don't agree with something in a contract, don't sign it!!! Negotiate for a change in the contract, cross off a portion and initial that mark, or refuse the position, but don't just sign onto what you don't want to honor, or you are agreeing to take the hit one way or another.

 

[Pompal 09.]

The main thing you need to know is that the amount of money in legal fees a company would have to pay out to chase you down to enforce their stupid non-complete is not worth it.

not at all the case. All it takes is a letter from an attorney to a spa advising them of the existence of the non-compete (costs about $50) and many spas will drop the applicant to avoid the hassle.

 

[danit-t <3]

The main thing you need to know is that the amount of money in legal fees a company would have to pay out to chase you down to enforce their stupid non-complete is not worth it.

not at all the case. All it takes is a letter from an attorney to a spa advising them of the existence of the non-compete (costs about $50) and many spas will drop the applicant to avoid the hassle.

What about if the person decided to work for themself? Do you think that most spas would attempt to track down who worked for them? (just wondering your thoughts as a business owner - not trying to be snotty)

 

[Echo Kilo]

The main thing you need to know is that the amount of money in legal fees a company would have to pay out to chase you down to enforce their stupid non-complete is not worth it.

not at all the case. All it takes is a letter from an attorney to a spa advising them of the existence of the non-compete (costs about $50) and many spas will drop the applicant to avoid the hassle.

And they know who is applying where HOW? :shock:

I believe you.....just wondering how prevalent it is for one spa to know who is applying at another spa?

How large of an area is common for a spa to protect with a non-compete clause?

 

[China Man]

hubby worked for a chiro while in massage school who had a nc clause. after he graduated and went into business for himself, he did let a few clients who had asked him to, know that he was working for himself. apparently ONE of them (because there were, seriously, only a handful) must've told the chiro they had heard from him, because he got one of those 'cease and desist' letters from a lawyer. well, we weren't 'actively pursuing' anyone anyway; there really wasn't anything to ;cease and desist'. he called the lawyer and explained the situation to her, she said she agreed that it was petty, and that if he'd just send a letter stating that he wouldn't contact any of "dr x's' patients who weren't already hubby's own clients by then anymore, that would suffice. we sent the letter and never heard anything more about it. a few weeks later, the chiro's receptionist called, a bit huffily, to let him know that there was a particular client who had INSISTED that they give her hubbys contact info- because she wasn't going to be going back to them for massage anyway so he wouldn't be 'stealing' her. the client did manage to find us, but she told us that the chiro was VERY resistant to giving the contact info out.

as for what the contract in question for the op says, how on earth are they going to enforce that? if s/he were to go into business for herself and put up a web page, for instance, how the heck is she going to know who is going to find it or not? i have heard of big corporations with 'trade secrets' making their people sign contracts stating that they won't go to work for the competition within x years of discontinuing emplyment at their company, but a massage client is a walking, breathing, thinking individual, not a trade secret. no contracts for mt's is stupid, in my opinion. you might as well try to get the clients to sign a contract stating they won't go get services from another mt.

 

[Day]

I didn't sign it. A friend of mine works there and he already had a few clients that he worked on out of his home office before the new owners "made" everyone sign that paper. If they didn't sign it, the could not continue to work there. So now if my the spa finds out my friend is still doing massages (with his own clients) out of his home that is only 5 miles from the spa, He would be fired. The new owners of the spa had all the employees sign employee handbooks with pay scales, rules, ect that they(the spa) has broken many times.

 

[Max S]

If I were that client asking the chiro for the MT's new location, it would backfire on the chiro. I'd be sticking with the MT and finding a new chiro.
(This seems familiar. Maybe we had another thread on this.)

The most successful chiro in our city has had a lot of chiros move through his office over the years. He tells them all the same thing. Eventually you're probably going to want to move out on your own. When that happens, open up right next door if you want, I don't care. The guy's been around enough to be secure in his work, but also knows there's plenty of work to go around.

This is especially true for MTs. We need such a small client base to have a full practice. Being huffy is pretty pointless and can really turn off clients.

 

[Markie]

The main thing you need to know is that the amount of money in legal fees a company would have to pay out to chase you down to enforce their stupid non-complete is not worth it.

not at all the case. All it takes is a letter from an attorney to a spa advising them of the existence of the non-compete (costs about $50) and many spas will drop the applicant to avoid the hassle.

What about if the person decided to work for themself? Do you think that most spas would attempt to track down who worked for them? (just wondering your thoughts as a business owner - not trying to be snotty)

You can't stop someone from being self employed, other than the client info/confidentiality aspect of it. You can, however, prevent someone from starting a competing establishment. A SP operation is not a competing establishment.

 

[yoma_yomy_yoma]

And they know who is applying where HOW? :shock:

#1 source -- co-workers blab to each other. Never seen an establishment where other job prospects is not one of the top 3 topics of conversation. Throw in some bad blood, and there are no shoreforum.xxxe of folks willing to tell the boss that Suzie is interviewing at XYZ spa.

Its a small world. Gets smaller when former workers do silly things like send out resumes from company computers.

I believe you.....just wondering how prevalent it is for one spa to know who is applying at another spa?

Spa managers at more corporately-inclined operations always check references. We get lots of calls from HR types verifying previous employment. We dont' consider bricks-and-mortar locations to be competitors unless they actively market in-room services to nearby hotels.

Many of us know each other and know who has what non-compete in our area. Once that first letter goes out, many managers won't talk to former tehrapists of that establishment to avoid the headache of dealing with the NCA

How large of an area is common for a spa to protect with a non-compete clause?

That varies by locality. And not because of different local laws, but because NCAs are governed by "reasonable" standards. 5 miles in a major metro area might be reasonable.

 

[abc]

My first job out of MT school, was with a franchise. They had a non compete for 10 miles and 1 year. I signed it. But then I lived 30 miles away. The last few months I was employed there, I was renting space in the town where I live, and when I quit. I have a few of my clients that drive to where I am at now to see me.

The salon that I rented at, didn't even have a contract, it was verbal, and I made sure over and over that if I left there, their view. Well they said oh never a problem, but of course that all changed when I left and my clients followed me. Nothing they could do about it, except piss and moan and turn into catty women lol *shrugs* it's business and almost all the regular clients I brought in were my clients. Never stepped foot in that place before.

 

[Penelope]

don't sign the non compete contract. it's petty and stupid of them using a model of fear and ownership that don't benefit the client. they focus on money not helping client. most of those contract breaks the laws because a lawyer wrote it for them who don't know anything about massage field. they wrote it base on corporation model of ownership and competition with other company.

do what many smart therapist do. decline it and write your own contract and present it to them. that's more successful if your self employed independent contractor as they have no control where and who you work with that is outside their premises. it's best if you can position yourself for that too so you can write off business expense. then you can have a template for where ever you apply that is fair. it's all negotiation right? what can't you write the contract? your basically proposing what you want. why let them do all the proposing with their contract that benefit them? companies tend to give you contract so that you don't argue with them about the details since many people think a contract can't be change or discuss.

basically I will never sign a contract that infringe on my rights to make a living now that I know more about contracts and business. when i started i sign a noncompete clause due to ignorance and companies use that to take advaneforum.xxxe of you as you don't know about how business law but then I found out it was all illegal when i started studying business in preparation to open my own business. it pays to know the laws of business for your area. it's a good filter to use to screen good people or shady owners.

 

[myportraitdrawing]

Depending on where you live, not signing a non-compete contract will give you two options. Go into business on your own, or don't do massage. I can't name ONE business around my area that offers massage (spa, salon, etc.) that doesn't have a non-compete. You might be able to talk them into tweaking it a little, but you'd be hard pressed to get a job as an employee doing massage without signing a non-compete. And as I said before, this is WI, where most non-competes don't hold up in court. And as I also said, just because it doesn't hold up in court does not mean that a business owner won't go after you to try to prove a point by costing you thousands in legal fees, in the hopes that it scares others from trying to break the non-compete.
I wish for everyone it were as simple as not signing a non-compete and finding somewhere else to do massage. Around here I'd be jobless.