Massage & *Sex*? On being a therapist ...

[Diana!!!]

As this is my first post (and given the nature of the title/topic), I would first like to mention that I have a tremendous deal of respect and appreciation for the work of a skilled massage therapist.

For your reading ease, I have sectioned the post.


My Interest in Massage

I am a 24 year old male who has suffered from a large number of dysfunctions and muscle imbalances for the duration of my adult life, but is now getting resolution from all issues. Massage has been a great tool for releasing trigger points and facilitating the changes that have needed to take place, since I have been getting work done over the past year or so.

In addition, as a first year medical student (who hopes to dedicate much of his future career to dysfunction like that I have suffered from), I thus have a great interest in learning a bit more of the techniques massage therapists employ. Most likely, I will try to take a few not-for-credit courses at a school nearby over the summer.


Massage, Touch, and Sensuality

A universally 'good' characteristic of a massage therapist, IMO, is a finesse in touch. The therapist should know muscles and skin inside out, and how to manipulate it with touch in any number of ways. Anyone who has had a good therapist will attest that there is something so remarkably soothing about a hand, with just the right firmness, running along the length of a muscle in perfect parallel to the fibres.

As a result, I can't help but wonder how the greater degree of muscle and body awareness an experienced massage therapist has translates into the bedroom.

On a personal level, I have never actually felt sexually aroused during a massage. Generally, I think this is because I know I'm not there for that purpose, I've had as many male therapists as female, I've not had a therapist I find sexually attractive, and lastly, the type of trigger point therapy I get is quite aggressive in nature.

However, this has been rattling around in my brain for a while now, and there are a few questions I've always wanted to ask a therapist (but for obvious reasons have not done so with one face to face).

I'm really hoping and looking forward to some open and honest answers.


The Big Questions

1) How has becoming a massage therapist affected sex for you and your partners?

2) Has the knowledge/techniques you've learned as a massage therapist affected your sexual conduct (eg. applying different types of touch)?

3) Have you ever perform massage specifically for erotic purposes with a sexual partner? What are your feelings in doing so?

4) How has working with the body on a daily basis affected your perspective on the excitement, sexuality, and sensuality (or lack thereof) of hand-body contact?



Let's not get shy now ...


Thanks,
Mike

 

[Pompal 09.]

Though I believe this is an important discussion, it is completely inappropriate for a professional bodywork board.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Though I believe this is an important discussion, it is completely inappropriate for a professional bodywork board.

I will concede that it is personal, yes, but as for inappropriate? I disagree entirely.

In browsing these forums, I have seen people discuss how being a massage therapist has affected just about all aspects of their lives, from standing in lines during trips to the grocery store, to finances, to family life at home. However, personally, I believe sex is a simple and normal part of life, just as all the aforementioned topics discussed here are.

I understand that, in the workplace, sex is the last thing a massage therapist wants to think about. As a medical student, I deal with many of the same issues you must in this area, so though I am not a massage therapist, I am no outsider to the potential perils of close physical care.

However, the questions and issues I raised are ones that only professionals will ever be able to reply to. As a result, it is thus a topic that could be no better suited to a professional forum such as this. Nowhere else besides such a locale would understand.

If you find the questions ones that are difficult for you to open your mind to, I apologize for your having read this. Additionally, if you are the type that, despite your adulthood, continues to blush any time a reproductive organ is mentioned in conversation by name, perhaps this is not the thread for you.

For the rest of us, though, who are mature and self-aware adults in every sense, I hope this can be an interesting thread where we AS professionals can discuss our experiences and perspectives freely.

As you said yourself, it IS an important topic. Perhaps it may help if to clarify the intent of my post, I offer my perspective on the topic first.

Personally, the understandings I have gained of the human body from undergraduate studies (Biology BSc, Anatomy & Physiology TA, etc.), learning, assessing, and treating patients physically through my ongoing M.D., and my ongoing experiences as a massage patient and hobbyest therapist have combined to change dramatically my understanding and approach to the human body in all aspects of life.

There was a time not too long ago when I would touch a shoulder, and all I would feel is a shoulder. However, that time is quickly and noticeably passing. Now when I touch a shoulder, casually or sensually, I instead feel the fibres of the deltoid underneath, and the trapezius arching upwards to the neck. Similarly, a leg has become no longer a leg to me, but rather a composite of quads, sartorius, hamstrings, all gliding and moving beneath the skin, invisibly to laymen, but as clear as day to my eyes, hands, and mind.

I have found the line between the physical nature of therapeutic effleurage/petrissage and sexual touch blurring more and more, yet at the same time becoming more and more clearly distinct. At his seforum.xxxe, the solid differences I discern between the two and rely on in keeping my head clear are:

1) Intent - Therapy must involve no sexual thoughts or desires; sexual touch obviously should
2) Environment - Therapy involves a controlled environment; sexuality obviously does not as well

However, the touch itself - the actual motion of hand against skin - when removed from thought and environment as above, is now almost identical for me regardless.

In this way, I am constantly affected by the knowledge and experience I have gained. I note without hesitation that my education has added depth to my sexual awareness. It is at the same time both pleasing and disorienting. I can only imagine how fundamentally this may also be the case for professionals who work in such a way each and every day, and it is along these lines in particular that I hope we can have discussion.

So there you have it. I asked the questions, but I have also stepped up to the plate to answer them, at least from my experience (at a somewhat greater length than I anticipated!). I hope that you, or others, will feel free to do the same.


Mike

 

[Jewel]

If you find the questions ones that are difficult for you to open your mind to, I apologize for your having read this. Additionally, if you are the type that, despite your adulthood, continues to blush any time a reproductive organ is mentioned in conversation by name, perhaps this is not the thread for you.

Breathe is actually one of the most open, honest, no-holds-barred, anti-censorship posters on this board. It's not really so much the blush factor, imo (which is there, but you could argue that it's an individuals choice not to share if they didn't want to), as much as the fact that if a bunch of us professional bodyworkers posted about how massage has affected our sex lives in a public forum, it could VERY easily be misread (to say the least) by the trolls that frequent our forum due to massage's unfortunate sometimes-ill-repute. We strive to bolster the reputation of massage and bodywork as a legitimate, professional, therapeutic, non-sexual field, and posting about how we incorporate our work in the bedroom would only fuel things the wrong way.

The maturity factor isn't the issue here, at all. This is a very mature board, and the topic of censorship has been addressed keenly and thoroughly in this forum community.

just my two cents.

 

[gr8music at qtrtilldawn]

Thanks for your respect of the profession, but these are personal questions, not professional ones. I'm not sure why a med student (or a doc) would need to know anything, ever, about an MT's life in this matter. It's just a boundary that we should always maintain with clients (which you are) and with other professionals we share the healthcare field with (which you will be). As considered as your interest is, I think it's -- just not something you get to know about.

It's kind of common to wonder basically "Are massage therapists better at 'it?' Do you ever cross massage/personal lines with your partner? And will you tell me about it?" And the answers are -- that's personal. Not for prudish or shy reasons, but because it's almost completely unthinkable to discuss that area of one's life with a client. Like personal finances, it's just not an appropriate part of practitioner/client sharing. The only place offhand I can think it *might* be OK would be in a research project about impact of one's profession on this area of life, involving people in types of professions (like touching professions, desk professions, professions of law enforcement, etc -- broad enough that the project never specifically identified MTs as a group).

Good luck with your studies and future care of patients, though. Personal experiences can really help develop compassion in the healthcare professional, and so can self-awareness, and it sounds like you have both.

ETA: we cross-posted. Just wanted to add -- we're used to people questioning our "adulthood" or level of prudishness when we decline to answer these questions. Hee hee! Kind of boring to be repeatedly challenged about that, but again, MTs get used to it. We know the reasons for the firm boundary (again, you are a client who is having disorienting experiences and a student, not a researcher or pal or even a colleague yet), and most of us will continue to maintain it. I don't know if you will be easily convinced, but I'm telling you honestly that the boundary exists as much to protect you -- again, a client and student -- as to protect ourselves. I really believe we have an obligation not to engage in this kind of intimate sharing with our clients (or referring colleagues, which you will eventually be).

 

[bigdon49245]

I agree with what everyone has said so far.
The question I pose is....have you asked a Gyno/ob how he is affected with his sex life because of what he sees all day long?

 

[hoachincosuts]

I agree with what everyone has said so far.
The question I pose is....have you asked a Gyno/ob how he is affected with his sex life because of what he sees all day long?

touche.

edit: can't figure out how to make an accent on this keyboard. lol

 

[Bonkers D. Bobcat]

Why thank you Backrub Monster.

If you find the questions ones that are difficult for you to open your mind to, I apologize for your having read this. Additionally, if you are the type that, despite your adulthood, continues to blush any time a reproductive organ is mentioned in conversation by name, perhaps this is not the thread for you.

For the rest of us, though, who are mature and self-aware adults in every sense, I hope this can be an interesting thread where we AS professionals can discuss our experiences and perspectives freely.

mo8ius, if you've read the forums enough to know so many of the aspects of daily life that we post about, I'm surprised you are so unfamiliar with my posting history that you'd make a statement such as this directed towards me. :roll:

Let me clarify my personal statement: Although sexual questions are very much a part of our lives as LMTs, in various ways, from personal and private lives, to our work boundaries and ethics, we are in no way obligated to discuss them here on this board. Not because we were asked, not because of some desire to prove we aren't prudish, and not because they are "related" through touch.

This subject is personal and private. Although many aspects of sexual issues are very appropriate topics for a discussion board related to our profession, I believe it is disrespectful for you to come on here and ask if our PERSONAL AND PRIVATE sex lives are different due to massage training. It is no more appropriate here than it is when a client asks "so you must be really good in bed, huh?" I don't care if you do couch your personal questions in lots of technical terms, it is still inappropriate and disrespectful.

I agree with Shannon. Why don't you go post your questions on a Gyn board and see how well received they are before you start calling names.









(eta: *shakes head trying to unravel grammar errors* Not enough coffee in the world this morning.)

 

[Dark Diva]

Just jumping in to add my input.

First of all bravo to Breathe for her clarity of thought & for her professionlism, shown here on this board in each & every posting, (and to Backrub Monster for pointing it out) and all the rest of you for stating your stand in regards to the post which started all of this. I stand with each and everyone of you.

Each of us are human of course and while we see & touch many others from all walks of life, we are there to be of service, as professionals. That said, we must maintain the
intent of having clear boundaries at all times, and the questions which were poised, however well-stated, were of
a personal nature. There can be no room for blurring the
boundaries or allowance given for "disorientation". If that is occuring for any professional then it had better be addressed, long before it gets to be a bigger problem, in part because of the effect it would have on a client, or patient, and because it could set the "Professional" up for a lawsuit. Lack of integrity on any level is something I take issue with, and I would assume most clients & or patients would feel the same about any practitioner they would choose to see.

mo8ius I mean no disrespect, but as a "mature & self-aware adult" 24 year old male you need to know, many of us on this board are female and have had many years of experience as professionals. We do not tolerate other professional healthcare practitioners who cannot respect us
& keep their own boundaries clear, much less respect ours. We all have a right to our opinions, & to our choices in how we conduct ourselves, and to our privacy when it comes to responding to the questions you poised on our board.

Stop and think for a moment about the propriety of your post, and about "keeping your head clear". Your
professional career, as a doctor, will come into question if you do not conform with the strict standards of the profession even while you are currently a first year med-student. Keeping those boundaries in place, at all times,
is a matter of integrity none of us can afford to cross them
not in thoughts, or in actions.

Good luck to you in your studies & in your choices in life

 

[gothie_rex]

"In browsing these forums, I have seen people discuss how being a massage therapist has affected just about all aspects of their lives, from standing in lines during trips to the grocery store, to finances, to family life at home."

I just couldn't leave this part alone. The answer to this is -- although yes this is a public internet place and technically anyone can read it, the above are matters we are discussing *among colleagues.* With respect, I have to point out that you are not our colleague -- you are a student, in another profession at that. So, when we decline to discuss any topic of the profession with a student or with someone in another line of work, that's legitimate too. Not that I can really imagine us discussing this particular topic in such a public forum as the internet, but if there ever were an imaginable situation in which MTs did discuss these things -- well, Mike, you probably just wouldn't be invited!

I don't know how to say this without inadvertently sounding patronizing, but I think you'll understand more about the "whys" when you have some more professional-ethics courses and experience to your name.

 

[Baldrick]

Mo8ius, here are some medical student forums that might be a better fit for you:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=11
http://www.studentdoc.com/phpBB2/
http://www.medschoolchat.com/Forum-index-c-6.html

 

[Mando]

I agree with what everyone has said so far.
The question I pose is....have you asked a Gyno/ob how he is affected with his sex life because of what he sees all day long?

lol. There was a great episode of Friends about that. Rachel was dating an Ob/Gyn who would not get intimate with her. When questioned, the response, I believe, was to paraphrase:

"You work in a coffee shop right? Well have you ever found that after a really long day of work, when you get home, you just think to yourself 'If I have to look at one more cup of coffee ...' ."

I laughed for quite a bit at that one, because I have talked to doctors and students about all sorts of experiences in this area, and there is definitely a grain of truth to it for many. Fortunately for women everywhere, there are no hobbyest Ob/Gyn's. However, there are hobbyest massage therapists, which brings me back to the issues this thread has raised.

First let me say that I apologize if any of the content of my prior two posts in this thread have been inflammatory in any way or crossed uncomfortable personal boundaries. This was not my intention.

The Internet is a wonderful thing. It offers anonymity and distance and removes faces, names, and personal existence from our online presences, to whatever degree we seek. As a result, I've found that nowhere else are people more willing to open up and be honest about themselves, even about personal subjects. It was on that level of online anonymity that I was hoping for answers or experiences.

Furthermore, although I am raising personal topics, they are personal topics as they related to the profession.

The replies thus far are quick to draw a line between myself and yourselves on the basis of the educational degrees we hold or do not hold. You consider me a 'client' and yourselves 'therapists', because I have not attended massage therapy schools and obtained a diploma. This line seems to have been drawn so far absolutely, despite the fact that I own and have studied cover to cover multiple massage therapy textbooks, and although I still encounter the unusually talented one who can do things that make me go "wow," at this point, I can confidently supply a full body massage at at least the same skill as the average therapist I encounter.

If I now provide a massage for a friend, as I have done and am open to continuing in the future, how surely will the issues I face differ from the ones you do with your clients?

How can it be implied with clarity that a hobbyest therapist such as myself will not experience/encounter the same issues as one with a degree who receives payment for their work?

Sometimes, I suppose, it makes the world easier to keep together when we draw lines between black and white, but life is just as much about the grays. It was within this realm that I find myself.

Regarding medical student forums, I am, of course, well aware of their existence and genuinely appreciate the suggestion. However, this is an issue I have encountered in massage therapy, and not as a medical student. A fellow medical student would not at all be qualified to answer my question. Even a doctor would not, as I have seen many of a variety of specialties, and found their general skill in palpation and general therapeutic touch to be severely lacking and no greater than the average population. It is for that reason I posted here, and I see no point in re-posting the question/issue elsewhere.

If nothing else, though, I suppose writing all that I have thus far has been helpful on its own for organizing and condensing the scattered thoughts running through my mind.

Before I had experienced and learned as much as I have the boundary between sensual touch and therapeutic was as wide as an ocean. The more I have learned and experienced, the more that divide has closed. Now at this seforum.xxxe, I see the separation as no greater than a small stream, one easily narrow enough a person could accidentally slip from one side to another with no more than a misplaced step.

Perhaps this closing of the gap is something that all of you have also gone through along the way. Perhaps it is furthermore this understanding of how thinly divided these two realms can be that makes it such a sensitive and intensely private topic.

It is always nice when the experienced can guide the new through uncharted territory, so I would be happy to hear any help you can provide.

Otherwise, I suppose it is just something I will have to figure out for myself, as I go. Hopefully I will be able to do it without a misstep. I will do my best.

Regards,
Mike

 

[invader zim luver]

On a more serious note, to the other responses, I apologize if my posts were taken as inflammatory. The Internet is a wonderful thing. It offers anonymity and distance and removes faces, names, and personal existence from our online presences, to whatever degree we seek. As a result, I've found that nowhere else are people more willing to open up and be honest about themselves, even about personal subjects.

I know I was asking personal questions. However, they were personal questions as they related to professionalism. Additionally, it was on that level of online anonymity that I was hoping for answers or experiences.

Some of us are more anonymous than others. You also need to realize that even tho some of us are anonymous, we offer advise on this message board. How will a responce to you on this thread be taken? Will someone read a very open responce on this thread and feel that it discredits everything else we have shared?

If one of the frequent posters on this board had done as you asked, I might hold them in a different light after reading it. The internet is not as anonymous as you think it is. Many posters list their websites, you or anyone else could track someone down rather easily.

 

[maybe its Emilyy:)]

Although I am raising personal topics, they are personal topics as they related to the profession.

No, not at all. I know you think they are, but -- they're personal questions about what MTs do in bed. That's still nothing but a personal question.

The replies thus far are quick to draw a line between myself and yourselves on the basis of the educational degrees we hold or do not hold.

Not just degrees, but experience as a professional who has responsibilities to clients. At this point *that* is the main thing that makes our situations different.


You consider me a 'client' and yourselves 'therapists', because I have not attended massage therapy schools and obtained a diploma. This line seems to have been drawn so far absolutely, despite the fact that . . . at this point, I can confidently supply a full body massage at at least the same skill as the average therapist I encounter.

Again, it's not just the technical skill involved (although I admire your interest and study of technique, and of course we all know really good MTs who mainly self-trained).

If I now provide a massage for a friend, as I have done and am open to continuing in the future, how surely will the issues I face differ from the ones you do with your clients?

A big difference is that our training equips us to focus on the client therapeutically without private parts of our own lives becoming indistinct from client interactions. Really. And it works, especially in this context, which is pretty crystal-clear and is also addressed in professional codes of ethics.

How can it be implied with clarity that a hobbyest therapist such as myself will not experience/encounter the same issues as one with a degree who receives payment for their work?

In fact, I think you have it backwards. Training helps us NOT to have these issues, or to resolve them before we have a position of responsibility with clients. To assume that professionals are struggling mightily with the sensual/therapeutic divide or with whether it's OK to chat about sex with clients shows that, understandably, you are unaware of how fully our training equips us to deal with these issues.

Before I had experienced and learned as much as I have the boundary between sensual touch and therapeutic was as wide as an ocean. The more I have learned and experienced, the more that divide has closed. Now at this seforum.xxxe, I see the separation as no greater than a small stream, one easily narrow enough a person could accidentally slip from one side to another with no more than a misplaced step. Perhaps this closing of the gap is something that all of you have also gone through along the way. Perhaps it is furthermore this understanding of how thinly divided these two realms can be that makes it such a sensitive and intensely private topic.

Again, at least in my experience, that's backward. Not only is the separation between the two very evident to the massage professional, it's also part of our training to know where the divide is and to confidently show any confused client *where* it is. They don't have to agree with us and may be going through their own process (as you are), but we're not closed-mouthed about it because personal-or-professional-touch is some kind of entangled mystery. We are closed-mouthed about it because the client-MT relationship is not about the sex life of the practitioner.

 

[cutiee:)]

Although I am raising personal topics, they are personal topics as they related to the profession.

No, not at all. I know you think they are, but -- they're personal questions about what MTs do in bed. That's still nothing but a personal question.

The replies thus far are quick to draw a line between myself and yourselves on the basis of the educational degrees we hold or do not hold.

Not just degrees, but experience as a professional who has responsibilities to clients. At this point *that* is the main thing that makes our situations different.


You consider me a 'client' and yourselves 'therapists', because I have not attended massage therapy schools and obtained a diploma. This line seems to have been drawn so far absolutely, despite the fact that . . . at this point, I can confidently supply a full body massage at at least the same skill as the average therapist I encounter.

Again, it's not just the technical skill involved (although I admire your interest and study of technique, and of course we all know really good MTs who mainly self-trained).

If I now provide a massage for a friend, as I have done and am open to continuing in the future, how surely will the issues I face differ from the ones you do with your clients?

A big difference is that our training equips us to focus on the client therapeutically without private parts of our own lives becoming indistinct from client interactions. Really. And it works, especially in this context, which is pretty crystal-clear and is also addressed in professional codes of ethics.

How can it be implied with clarity that a hobbyest therapist such as myself will not experience/encounter the same issues as one with a degree who receives payment for their work?

In fact, I think you have it backwards. Training helps us NOT to have these issues, or to resolve them before we have a position of responsibility with clients. To assume that professionals are struggling mightily with the sensual/therapeutic divide or with whether it's OK to chat about sex with clients shows that, understandably, you are unaware of how fully our training equips us to deal with these issues.

Before I had experienced and learned as much as I have the boundary between sensual touch and therapeutic was as wide as an ocean. The more I have learned and experienced, the more that divide has closed. Now at this seforum.xxxe, I see the separation as no greater than a small stream, one easily narrow enough a person could accidentally slip from one side to another with no more than a misplaced step. Perhaps this closing of the gap is something that all of you have also gone through along the way. Perhaps it is furthermore this understanding of how thinly divided these two realms can be that makes it such a sensitive and intensely private topic.

Again, at least in my experience, that's backward. Not only is the separation between the two very evident to the massage professional, it's also part of our training to know where the divide is and to confidently show any confused client *where* it is. They don't have to agree with us and may be going through their own process (as you are), but we're not closed-mouthed about it because personal-or-professional-touch is some kind of entangled mystery. We are closed-mouthed about it because the client-MT relationship is not about the sex life of the practitioner.

t023 Everything I wanted to reply to and more! Thanks, BJB-LMP!

Sherry

 

[liveandlaugh]

At least in my experience, that's backward. Not only is the separation between the two very evident to the massage professional, it's also part of our training to know where the divide is and to confidently show any confused client *where* it is. They don't have to agree with us and may be going through their own process (as you are), but we're not closed-mouthed about it because personal-or-professional-touch is some kind of entangled mystery.

That is by far the most fascinating thing I have read thus far in this post. Thank you for providing information that may help me (and not just continue the debate about whether or not my questions are appropriate or not, which will help me in no way resolve the fundamental issues behind them).

You state that in your professional experience the divide between sexual and therapeutic touch GROWS rather than narrows. However, as I described and you have pointed out, I have found the opposite. To me the distinction has become more nuanced and subtle.

Maybe noticing the similarities is a transient part of my learning curve, and noticing/strengthening the differences will follow, corollary. I am not sure.

Perhaps my initial line of questioning was not the best one to get at all of this. Please excuse this. I have absolutely no interest in how MT affects your individual sex lives. However, I very much DO have an interest in my own.

What BJB-LMP alluded to above is precisely what I was hoping for insight along the lines of. Any further elaboration would be quite productive and helpful, as currently, I cannot help but view it all as what BJB-LMP very eloquently described as, "some kind of entangled mystery."

Does anyone have a detangler?

 

[cute-boots]

Does anyone have a detangler?

Sure. Go take some ethics courses.

 

[kiwi mum to one and a bun]

I knew if I just waited someone else would respond with something... I suggest the following: go to the hair products isle and try asking any woman there about her personal sex life, like its no big deal and see what her reaction is. Chances are she's not going to be willing to share
her personal life with you either, and you may get a slap in the face for it too.

It seems there is a total lack of recognition here that you
are confusing your "personal" interest with a masquerade
as a "professional" inquiry. Your questions are bordering
so close to what we as professional MTs consider a troll that I'm sure by now we are all questioning that you are who you say you are. The internet cannot determine who is presenting themselves as something they are not. We use this board for our interests & advice between MTs.
While it is open to those who are student practitioners, and clients, we expect that it be kept to a respectful & honorable sharing for one and all.

 

[Questionarre]

Before I had experienced and learned as much as I have the boundary between sensual touch and therapeutic was as wide as an ocean. The more I have learned and experienced, the more that divide has closed. Now at this seforum.xxxe, I see the separation as no greater than a small stream, one easily narrow enough a person could accidentally slip from one side to another with no more than a misplaced step.

There is no way a professional could easily slip from one side to the other, just as qualified doctors do not get involved sexually with their patients (yes, there are the unethical few) ETHICS
Your comments so far seem to indicate that you're just figuring out the wonders of how the human body works, you're blurring it all, and think anyone that has some level of knowlegde must have the same blurry outlook where it is easy to slip from therapeutic to sexual, because it is a wonderful human body. ETHICS

 

[Ric]

Mo8ius, I'm a little confused. Your first post asked specific questions about the sex lives of the professional massage therapists. When people objected, you switched your tactics, and now you're asking about how thin the line is between sexual & professional therapeutic massage. You seem to disbelieve us when we say that the line between massage and sex is very clear for us, and there's no blurring of that line. You also seem to object to the notion that there's a difference between someone dabbling in massage therapy as a hobby, and someone who performs hundreds, if not one thousand professional massages per year.

Mo8ius wrote: You state that in your professional experience the divide between sexual and therapeutic touch GROWS rather than narrows. However, as I described and you have pointed out, I have found the opposite. To me the distinction has become more nuanced and subtle.

That is because you are not a professional massage therapist. I think the reason the line is blurry for hobbyists (such as yourself) is that you tend to practice massage therapy on spouses, significant others, and other people you're intimate with. Most people in a hobby setting have the experience of massage being blended with, or ending with sex. Although this may not be true all the time, it's true enough of the time that sex & massage can become connected in your mind. With professionals, obviously that isn't the case. There is nothing sexual about the massages we (professional massage therapists) provide for our clients. For an ethical professional massage therapist, there is no struggle to keep the lines clear. It's automatic. We are looking at the body from a holistic medical perspective. Our focus is muscle, fascia, circulation, lymphatic flow, joint range of motion, postural abnormalities, nerve impingements, etc. Not exactly hot stuff. If a professional massage therapist looked at client's bodies from a sexual perspective instead, then they are in the wrong career.

You may not like our answers, but the truth is, we aren't your peers, so our experiences don't (and won't) match your own. That may offend you. Nonetheless, that's the case.