Normal tips for massage therapists

Allie Jane ~

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When I go to the chiropractor and get a 1/2 hour massage, insurance is paying for most of it and I don't tip them. However, once in a while I will go for either and hour or hour and a half massage with two different therapists who have their own private practices. Those full body massages are much better than what you get in the chiropractor's office, but they cost $60 to $100 based on time.

My question is, what is a normal tip to expect from a session? If the time is an hour, I've given them an extra 10 bucks. So if I paid $60, I gave them $70, if I paid $100, I gave them $110. Do most of your clients tip, and if so, how much? Is what I am giving considered normal? :D Thanks!
 


It varies from client to client but usually I get something like the following......
30 mins $5 - $8
60 mins $8 - $20
90 mins $10 - $20

I once got $3 for a 60 min massage! And hey, it was better than nothing! Tips are nice, I like to get them. I have one client that doesn't tip at all. But he's there every week and he gives me a big tip for holidays. So that works out nicely!

What you're giving them is fine! Massages are expensive! It shows you value their work! I am sure they are happy with it!

Steph!
 


My tips range from nothing to $60.(not a typo)


I don't expect my clients to tip me. But its nice when they do.

I agree with SalemRose massages are expensive and some people can only afford the already set price. If you can't tip but would like to, refer someone to your Therapist. To me that is more of a tip than you giving me $10 or whatever they leave me.

Plus people walking out with smiles saying "I feel so much better" is a tip in itself.
 


Shannon said:
I agree with SalemRose massages are expensive and some people can only afford the already set price. If you can't tip but would like to, refer someone to your Therapist. To me that is more of a tip than you giving me $10 or whatever they leave me.

Plus people walking out with smiles saying "I feel so much better" is a tip in itself.

Oh, I totally agree. Refer a friend! Tell them when they go in to tell the MT that you refered them (they'll probably mention it anyway!). I think that's the best tip out there! It shows your MT that like her work so much that your out there talking her up! That's a compliment! And besides, remember what they say "It's the thought that counts!".

Steph!
 


I have my own practice, and I set my prices so that I do not expect tips. My credit card processing does not offer a line for tipping. I'd say about 20% of my clients leave a little extra.

But, when I worked for a chiropractor on commission, it was really nice to get that $5 tip after a session, because the massage fee was split with the office.
 


Normally it is suggested to be 15-20% of the price of the service rendered. When it is billed through insurance, I understand that you do not know what is charged. I would estimate the tip if you choose to give one, by using the the range of prices for that area. My tips range from $15-40/hour, although I work in a very high end range in the NYC metro area. But yes, the therapist is usually happy to accept anything that you feel is proper, the best tip is to speak well about the service to those that you know. Word of mouth is the best advertizement out there.
 


think about it this way, if an MT works on a perceneforum.xxxe or split fees, like in a spa, then 15% gratuity is typical.
if an MT is self employed, then tipping is not necessarily expected, although appreciated. after all, if i need a tip, i should raise my rates.

medical environments get tipped the least.
 


I'm not the best for recommending clients....I feel a little uncomfortable doing that with the group of people I am around, and probably just because of my personality. I hate anything where I feel like I am marketing. However, a couple days after I had had a 90 minute massage, I emailed my therapist to tell her how well I had felt the next day after...and how I had played basketball and beat two guys because I felt so flexible. She asked if I could give her a testimonial to put on her website. Since that was something I am good at (writing) and because she gives great massages, I was more than happy to help out in that way. :D At least I feel of some use!

Thank you for all in the information about the tips. I will probably give $10-15 each time, and maybe a bonus near Christmas.
 


ace88 said:
She asked if I could give her a testimonial to put on her website. Since that was something I am good at (writing) and because she gives great massages, I was more than happy to help out in that way. :D At least I feel of some use!

that is so valuable to her. good for you :smt038
 


In school, it's fairly customary for us to receive tips since we're not getting paid, but it doesn't always happen. Outside of school though, we've been told time and time again - charge what you feel you're worth. Then you won't be disappointed or upset when you don't get a tip.

Having said that, in school or out... I enjoy tips - extra money is always nice. However, keeping the previously mentioned ideas in mind, I'll charge what I feel my services are worth and never "expect" a tip! :wink:
 


Shannon said:
My tips range from nothing to $60.(not a typo)


I don't expect my clients to tip me. But its nice when they do.

I also don't expect tips, but it is always nice when I do receive one, especially when I know that the client really appreciated the session. Last week I had a new client who received her massage as a Christmas present and I was really touched when her husband handed me a fistful of cash as I was leaving their home. It actually turned out to be a $10 tip since all of the bills were ones, but still it was most definitely the thought that counted. :D

The largest tip I ever received was $110 for a 90 minute massage. 8) Even though I felt that the session had gone exceptionally well, I still wanted to check with my client and make sure that there wasn't a mistake. When I found out that there wasn't a mistake and that she really did want me to give me that much of a tip, I was on Cloud 9 the rest of that week. :D
 


When I worked at a chiropractor's office, I did receive a few tips, but not often. I think the more medical settings tend to discourage it since people don't normally tip doctors, etc. Now I'm at a health club, and tips are a lot more common, though by no means universal. I don't bill insurance, so all of my clients are paying out of pocket, and I really appreciate that they are even willing to spend as much as they do on the basic rate.

I agree that recommending my services or offering to write a testimonial are excellent ways to let me know how much you enjoyed your treatment.
 
Normal tips for massage therapists

ace88 said:
My question is, what is a normal tip to expect from a session?

My answer to your question above is nothing.
The key word here for me is expect.
I have been given anything from $5-$50 for a tip.

It's always appreciated, still, never expected.

I don't try to use the argument about ..."well, you don't tip your dentist do you?" as some MT's do..... I'm not a dentist etc.
I just don't expect it.

Robyn
 


just like in a restaurant, 20%, but that is at a spa where they take 60% of my money PLUS product charge PLUS a fee if you use the credit card machine. so if youcan, always try to tip in cash. this will ensure that the therapist gets the whole thing. when i worked at a chiro, i didnt hardly ever get tips, and that is one reason i dont work at a doctors office anymore. i wont lie, tips are great, and i count on them, but i live in a big city where tipping is the norm, same can not be said for all places i guess.
 
Tips? Huh? Where are they?

I've heard so many horror stories how therapists part time for a spa and part time for me at the same time. Spas and other companies take so much of the perceneforum.xxxe, leaving little left over for the therapist.

but that is at a spa where they take 60% of my money PLUS product charge PLUS a fee if you use the credit card machine

My company only keeps $40\hour max. Whether it's chair massage or table massage the therapist never makes less than $50\hour base, plus the average tip is $20-30 an hour. ($40\hr company and $70-80\hr therapist average, quite fair I think)

Part Time Therapists here average 10 appointments a week at $700 or more, based on their schedule. Some less, some more. If they want to work longer hours, they are welcome to. Some only have a three hour time block each day free, so they just work one or two appointments each day, and are happy with that.

Yesterday a new therapist on her first appointment made $115 in one hour. The appointment was at a nice hotel through the concierge, only 10 minutes from her Arlington house. She said the single appointment was equal to, or slightly more, than what she made slaving away all day at her last spa job. She said just one or two appointments a day with my company would make her very happy. She now regrets wasting so much of her time at this "Upscale Spa".

80% of therapists who work\worked for me say that their spa client told them that they left a cash tip for them in an envelope at the front desk. When the therapist went to collect the money,"Nothing was left for you". The receptionist had three Starbucks coffees sitting in front of her.

The spa client had a whole day worth of treatments and mysteriously, the therapist, the nail person, the mud wrap person, and the hair stylist, all didn't receive any tips on the credit card. But the clients's credit card had an additional $125 charged over what the cost of the treatments were. The spa owner denied anything.

One therapist left my company for a while to work full time six days a week at a spa. She told me what happened above to her, and several more similar stories. She worked all day for 12 hours, and realized that working for me part time she always received 100% of her tips, had more free time, more fun, less stress, and was slightly more profitable. She said she was sorry she left and apologized to me for leaving. I gave her a hug and said, "Welcome back, you have several clients who were asking for you. I have an appointment for you in three hours?"
 


Hi!

I'm not a massage therapist but I am just a client who goes for massages every two weeks at a local day spa.

I am so glad you brought up this subejct. I always leave a tip on the table in the room where I receive my massage for two reasons: Less than honest personnel at the front desk and the fact that I feel that it is no one's business how much the massage therapist receives for a tip. Maybe it's not proper etiquette, but I feel better knowing that my MT gets his tip!
 


serenitymassage said:
Hi!

I'm not a massage therapist - just a client who goes for massages every two weeks at a local day spa.

I am so glad you brought up this subejct. I always leave a tip on the table in the room where I receive my massage for two reasons: Less than honest personnel at the front desk and the fact that I feel that it is no one's business how much the massage therapist receives for a tip. Maybe it's not proper etiquette, but I feel better knowing that my MT gets his tip!
 
No poking here.

Just to let you know I wasn't poking fun at Senerity spa (Herndon \ Alexandria). They are good people! :) (Experience from my direct contact, client's contact, and therapist's contact) I was poking fun at another spa.

You tip your waiter at the table, why not leave a massage tip on the table?
 
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    Wednesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella, Cindy & Sasa. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild
  28. HolidaySpa:
    Wednesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธ: EMILY, KIKI & CINDY. EMILY is a VERY tiny petite SPINNER superstar of the highest quality. Emily has a pretty face, natural A Cups, slim waist, and a lovely spinner bottom, topped off with the very best of services. Kiki is very attractive, young, about 5โ€™4โ€ and 110 Lbs., slim with a banging body.
  29. Sunrise Health Centre:
    ๐Ÿซฆ Angela, Yuri & Lily are here Today! ๐Ÿ“ž๐Ÿ“ฒ (647) 325-8086 ๐Ÿ’ฆ Angela is a Beautiful & Petite Young Chinese Girl ๐Ÿ’‹ Yuri is a Superstar Chinese Hot Girl ๐Ÿซฆ Lily is Chinese, curvy, with big boobs... We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. ๐Ÿ’„ They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime ๐Ÿšถโ€โ™€๏ธ๐Ÿšถโ€โžก๏ธ Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill
  30. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Today๐ŸŒธChristina๐ŸŒธTiffany๐ŸŒธAkame๐ŸŒธLynda๐ŸŒธKarla Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  31. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Meet๐ŸŒธTina๐ŸŒธAletta๐ŸŒธMariaCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  32. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Jenny๐Ÿ˜ is a beautiful young part-time student with a very sexy figure and big natural 34D breasts. She can give a great massage and very good open minded service. She knows how to please a man with her natural beauty and charm. S
  33. New Oriental Health Centre:
    ๐Ÿซฆ Phoenix, Nayla & New Girl Coco are in today ๐Ÿ“žCall ๐Ÿ“ฒ Text: (647) 381-2688 ๐Ÿซฆ Phoenix is a Canadian Born Filipino Hottie ๐Ÿ‘ Nayla is a Tall, Young, Beautiful & Curvy Spanish Girl. ๐Ÿ’„Coco is a young sexy Taiwanese girl๐Ÿ’‹ All Our Girls Provide Lots of E X T R A S & are Extremely Open-Minded ๐Ÿค— Open from 8 am til Late! Drop in to Unit 26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill.
  34. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix blossom Spa โ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธtable shower ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘body scrub๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน5124 Dundas W Etobicoke โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 Nice girl Luna She can provide a very good massage with sensual touch. She knows how to take direction and please a man. Suki ๐Ÿ˜˜can provide deep Thai massage. She takes directions very well. She has many assets and knows how to use them. Come see her today.Welcome to walk in or make an appointment at any time. Plenty of parking space at the back door
  35. seavisual:
    R
  36. EMSpa_schedule:
    Tomorrow's sneak peek: On Wednesday November 27, 2024, our attendants will be Carla ๐Ÿฅฐ, Opal โค๏ธ, Cici ๐Ÿ”ฅ, Sandy ๐Ÿค— and Yoyo ๐Ÿคฉ. Call 905-479-6668 to book
  37. hiyamickey:
    7 girls working at Reinella wellness, 19 years old Japanese student girl Hannah, Tiffany, Queenie, Ocean, Sasha, Grace, Candy @6262 hwy7 unit #1 Vaughan โ˜Ž๏ธ๏ผš905-851-4888
  38. SL West:
    ๐Ÿ’†โ€โ™€๐Ÿ’–Tue Blue?๐Ÿ’œ๐Ÿ’– Ultimate destination for Asian massages๐ŸŽ‰ Two fab spots: SL Richmond Hill & SL West Oakvilleโœจ Your passport to paradise with 9 enchanting girls fr China, HK, Japan & Korea โ€”Cici, Cindy, Coco, new Aliyah, Yui, Echo, 36D Amber, Kelly & Korean Luna โ€” ready to pamper you๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ Ring us ๐Ÿ“ž647-695-6354 or text us ๐Ÿ“ฑ647-578-8169โœจ 160 East Beaver Cr., Unit 12, RichmondHill ๐Ÿ’ฐWhere Eastern charm meets Western comfort - your bliss awaits๐Ÿ™Œ
  39. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Today๐ŸŒธSusan๐ŸŒธLuna๐ŸŒธCassy๐ŸŒธLynda Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  40. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Meet๐ŸŒธClaire๐ŸŒธIsabella๐ŸŒธJazminCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  41. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Coco -๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ˜˜Our new sexy and slim massage girl Coco exudes elegance and allure, with
  42. lotushubspa:
    LotusSpa, today we have arranged different beautiful new girls to work for all customers every day. Anna is a Chinese girl with big breasts and beautiful figure, Cici is a Korean girl with good figure and gentle temperament, Jessica is a Taiwanese girl with fair skin and big breasts. If you are interested, please call 9052375885. Or send SMS to 4163565876.
  43. SugarLoveSpa:
    Tuesday at โค๏ธ๐Ÿ’™ ๐Ÿ’œโŽ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—š๐—”๐—ฅ ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”โŽ ๐Ÿ’–๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’˜: MIMI, SASA & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž MIMI is a slim & busty Asian/Euro mix beauty, 50Kgs & 1M60. Mimi has a very versatile range of services. SASA is a Chinese girl, nice and friendly, a little shy but can do everything. TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons
  44. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, New First Day Slim Sexy Chinese Tina, Slim Petite Chinese Vivi & Sexy Slim Chinese Jenny all new Sexy Young Roster
  45. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Molly๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ˜˜An enchanting and skilled new Asian massage girl, known for her calming presence and soothing touch. Molly exudes an aura of serenity and grace. As she gently guides you through each movement, her soft hands apply just the
  46. See You Health Center:
    Natalie she is CBC/filipina mixed Petite school girl Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl She is 5โ€™2โ€tall . 100Lbs, with D Cup Melons Cici Cute Skinny Sexy Vietnamese Girl With Voluptuous Huge C Melons Provides Amazing Service โ˜Ž๏ธ416-988-2950
  47. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Sami Gorgeous Model Type CBC Vietnamese School Girl Barbie Very Young, very Petite Korea Student With Perfect S shape type Spicy Smoking Hot Body Great BBBJ, CIM, GFE in Her menu Suki From Taiwan, sweet girl Sexy tight body amazing C cups with Those incredible nipples โ˜Ž๏ธ647- 446-0886
  48. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Julia๐Ÿ˜˜ - A shy new Korean girl waiting
  49. wonderspa:
    . ๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒบWonder spa,(9421Jane st unit127)call416-5000-800โ˜Ž๏ธbest massage in vaughan,come visit us.4beautiful attendants ,Today and tomorrow RMT available,๐Ÿ’„sexy very young girl Mimi,natural c cup,very good looking ๐Ÿ’„Tina ,open mind she can provide good tissue massage and everything you need,๐Ÿ’„very long hair Lucy can provide body slide ,BbJ,very popular beautiful girl ๐Ÿท๐Ÿท๐Ÿฅฐmust try
  50. AmoreSpaEtobicoke:
    AMORE SPA 127 Westmore Drive, Unit 106C Etobicoke, ON M9V 3Y6 โ˜Ž 437-688-2407 โ˜Ž TWO SPINNERS TODAY Tuesday at AMORE SPA: CHERRY(10AM-11pm) & Tiny Spinner LALA CHERRY is a proven superstar, Slim Asian with a pretty face, all natural A or B Cups, long nipples, slim waist & small round bum. Her services are legendary. Tiny LALA is an unbelievably good Superstar SPINNER, only 5โ€™2โ€
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