What do you think?

[Holbrook]

The other post about renting space made me think, so I want to know what everyone's opinion is on this?

I am talking to an acupuncturist, they want a massage therapist to share their space, so they have and MT to refer their clients to.

So the deal would be I make 60% for the clients they refer to me, and pay 25.00 for the clients I brought in.

What do you think of this? 25 seems pretty high, but it's just a private small office, so I don't know how they regulate this, and what if it's only a 30 minute massage, or 90? But the thing I like is unlike rent, if I don't have a client of my own, I don't have to pay!

I've worked in a spa for a few years, so I am new to this.

 

[b8ee1]

What do you think?

The other post about renting space made me think, so I want to know what everyone's opinion is on this?

I am talking to an acupuncturist, they want a massage therapist to share their space, so they have and MT to refer their clients to.

So the deal would be I make 60% for the clients they refer to me, and pay 25.00 for the clients I brought in.

What do you think of this? 25 seems pretty high, but it's just a private small office, so I don't know how they regulate this, and what if it's only a 30 minute massage, or 90? But the thing I like is unlike rent, if I don't have a client of my own, I don't have to pay!

I've worked in a spa for a few years, so I am new to this.

I assume you will be concidered an independent contractor and you will have to supply everything including a table, linen, and oil.

How much do you intend to charge? $25 of $50 is 50%, but $25 of $75 is 33%, so it really depends on what you are charging.

It depends how you look at it. Over time, you should get more clients from your own marketing and client referals than the accupunturist can refer to you. So, if that $25 is less than his 40%, its not a bad deal. Keeping track of who refered who and fighting over whether or not its a referal from the accupunturist or from your marketing can be a hassle. Are you sure he said $25 for your own clients? Or did he mean 25%? Find out for certain. Over time, you should have more of "your own" clients rather than referals from the accupunturist. Perhaps he thinks you wont be doing any session shorter than an hour?

Another option is to try to change the deal. Offer him 30% of all your sessions plus a set amount the FIRST TIME he sends someone your way. For example, if you charge $70 an hour and he sent 3 people (Your only three clients - who you pay an extra $10 for their first visit) to you in one week you would owe him $63 plus $30, $93 total for the week. That will leave you with $117 plus tips. Not to shabby for only 3 hours of work! The hard part is when you get more busy and you really start writing him big checks. If you have 10 clients a week and he has refered 3 of them, you will be giving him $240 for that particular week, making $430 plus tips for yourself.

Have you thought of putting cap on the deal? When I think about how much you will be paying him, its scary! There is the potential for you to pay this guy $1000 or more each month! Ask him how much he would be willing to rent the room for and then offer him a cap of $100 more than that per month. This way, you benefit by not paying him anything if you dont have any clients, but at the same time you are not being screwed as your clientel picks up.

 

[Binst is happy]

definately have a cap!!! (I got burned once without one - learned my lesson!)
I would also maybe think about the option to change to rent only after a certain amount of time - once you get your clientelle built up, you are not going to want to keep paying perceneforum.xxxe when you could do flat rent.

 

[Pratik]

Thanks, this was very helpful!

Could someone (forgive my ignorance) explain more to me about this cap?? I think I know what you are talking about, if I explain, I feel like I will leave myself (and everyone else!) more confused!

I believe it's like if I have so many clients, I just pay him 100 over my rent. If I reach x amount of clients?

 

[BritneyHill]

right - once you reach X amount (predetermined agreed amount with Dr.) of $ in rent from perceneforum.xxxe of clients, you would pay no more. That way, once you get a good clientelle built up, you know you will not have to pay over X amount no matter how busy you are.
One place I was an IC at (when I was just starting out and was very naive), I paid 30% for my rent. Well, I was just starting out and that was all fine and dandy when I was slow. but once I started to build a clientelle, I ended up paying $800/month. the concept of a cap had never even crossed my mind till it was too late. For $800/month I could have been renting my own building!
I feel kinda silly even admitting it - oh well, live & learn! :roll:

 

[-- Question Girl --]

No, thank you stone, I would have been doing the same thing!!

I have been talking to friends and family, but it is very different than talking to people with more experience in that particular field. And I was thinking about that, right now I have a good clientelle, and lots of friends that I would like to work on there instead of having everyone come to my apartment, but I figured that would add up, $25 per massage! So I was going to just ask for less, but this idea is WAY smarter!

Do most places go for it? What is a good number to set it at? I don't want to offend him by saying something that is too low (or screw myself over with something too high). How should I propose this to him?

Should I just say I will pay you X per client, and X per client you refer to me, until I pay X amount? I am still a little lost, sorry I feel stupid here, but I am bad with wording and bad at trying to negociate!!

Again, everyone's help is completely appreciated!!!

 

[ClizenCortes]

right - once you reach X amount (predetermined agreed amount with Dr.) of $ in rent from perceneforum.xxxe of clients, you would pay no more. That way, once you get a good clientelle built up, you know you will not have to pay over X amount no matter how busy you are.
One place I was an IC at (when I was just starting out and was very naive), I paid 30% for my rent. Well, I was just starting out and that was all fine and dandy when I was slow. but once I started to build a clientelle, I ended up paying $800/month.

I'm just curious how long it took you to build up that clientele? In other words, for how long did your Lessor accept less than market value as the negotiated perceneforum.xxxe from you, compared to how long you paid more than market value to the Lessor?

Perceneforum.xxxes can be very fair, even when the $ figure settled upon is much higher than a straight rental fee would be. The primary lease-holder or owner assumes quite a bit of risk by going with a straight perceneforum.xxxe. For instance, what happens when you go on a two week vacation? His rent is reduced, right? even though it is still your space? Or any number of reasons why... what if you have 4 people scheduled, (Lessor gets $60,) and 3 of them cancel? (Lessor gets $15.)

I think caps are good, but rent on a perceneforum.xxxe basis will often be higher than if you just negotiate a set fee that is not based upon whether or not you have clients.

Also, how much is being provided for you? Is the space providing all the equipment? Depending on what that is, it could be worth a few thousand dollars. Spread that out over a couple of years of work, maybe it adds $100/month that you would have had to pay upfront on your own for equipment in a straight rental situation.

Are they providing scheduling for you? Add another $40-100/month. Do they bring the clients in? Add your "share" of advertising expense. Sheets and product? That's worth another $1-3 off the top of every massage. Web presence? Business cards? The value of being located within an established business? (Who knows what that's worth.)

I'm just saying that at one location, paying fees up to $1000/month could be a total rip-off, but in another situation it could be a very good deal for you as a therapist.

If you know exactly what is going to be provided, including how it has worked in the past, and how busy you will be, you will have a better idea of what the cap should be, or if you should even have one at all.

 

[Due April 9th with second]

those are all good points, Breathe.
In my situation, and this was 7 years ago... nothing was provided for me except the room and the phone, and a yellow page ad that brought little to no business in. I had to provide everything else. And half way thru my lease, my landlord decided I wasn't making enough money (for her share of it) so she started renting my room out half the week to another therapist (and offered the new therapist to use MY table without asking my permission!) and this after I had established regulars on those days.

to answer your question of how long it took me to build that clientelle - I was only at that space for 8 months total, and at least the last 5 months I paid $700+ for rent. It was not the very first place I started, so I did have some existing clientelle to start. Today, 7 years later, I have my own place - rent and all expenses - still comes to under $1,000/month.

 

[Exemplify]

those are all good points, Breathe.
In my situation, and this was 7 years ago... nothing was provided for me except the room and the phone, and a yellow page ad that brought little to no business in. I had to provide everything else.

Good case for straight rental.

naked eye, if you get all the details, in writing, you will be able to run numbers and see if $25 (or 40%) seems like a reasonable agreement to you. It's kind of hard to say based on what you presented.

 

[cashflowpatrick]

Ok, this is helping, basically, here's some of my thought process and more info...

Around here, you can rent one room of space for around 600-700 a month.

At that place, they provide the table and room, but I do the sheets (and I live in an apartment, so laundry is a PITA for me!), the lotion, take phone calls and book everything myself. I own a table, so really, the only thing they are covering would be stuff like electricity and water and stuff.

People have told me it's a hassle just because you always have to have your phone and be checking your email and the job never stops, which I understand, but also, it is the price to pay for me to determine my own schedule, and not have to sit there if I have no clients. So I am going to say those balance out.

I do like the point you brought up that they are taking some risk. I think that is what attracts me most (and referals) because I can take time off and not worry about making rent. So I do understand sometimes I will have to pay more, but also, sometimes I would be paying less.

Again, I was talking to people who said (again, not MTs, so much more simple over all which is good) that if I am happy making X amount, who cares what I end up paying a month? So even if I charged 70 a massage, pay out $20 to them, and had 60 in a month, yes I am paying them 1,200 which is more than I would probably pay for rent around here, but I'd still make 3,000, or 50 per massage, which is better than I am making now!

I think that may have confused everyone else, :

So I don't know, I might just ask if I can work out different numbers...I still think 25 is too high...

 

[Kenny K]

I don't think $25 is too high at all. Of course, what works for me and what works for you may not be the same. I am also basing that on what the average rate for an hour session is around here. The going rate in my area is about $70- give or take a little.

So if someone pays $70 for a session, and $25 of that goes toward rent/split, that still leaves you with $45/session. And you don't have to worry about making rent, which is great if you take a weekend off for a CEU, or you are sick and can't work for several days, etc.

I do agree that trying to figure out who brought in the client could be confusing. For me, I would rather just figure out a good split (aka how much do I want/need to make for each session) and go with that all the way around.