Dangerous?

[Andy D]

Wow, I think this is the first time it's been implied that I made-up a story...

First of all, I am no expert when in comes to TJ, I fully admit that. On the other hand, I am by no means a newbie. I rather enjoy barhopping and fooling around with the ladies on Revolucion, or at least I use to. I am fully aware of La Zona, including Adelitas, Hong Kong, Chicago and the $20 street girls. I also use to enjoy going to Mystery and getting fucked-up for a $15 entrance fee. Just because I like Revolucion, doesn't mean I don't know my shit....

Secondly, as of my story of being shaken down by the cops.... One of the door men started following us while we were on our way to La Zona. He decided to cross the street in front of a cop car. The cops got out and searched him, they found drugs on him. We had absolutly nothing to do with this guy, but since he was talking to us the cops stated that they must now assume that we were trying to buy those drugs. We were not, and I'm sure the cops knew that we were not, but they still took us on a "tour." Hence why we paid close to $100. Thereafter we decided to just spend the measly $3 and get a taxi from Revolucion to La Zona.

As for Killit's comments... UH, newsflash, when you are in a foreign country it should be OK to use their currency. You must not get out much. Furthermore, if you had any kind of reading comprehension you'd notice that I was NOT ripped off on Revolucion, and therefore I am not a sucker.

 

[satine]

DAMN ITS THAT BAD IN BUSINESS,THE USA ECONOMY IS KILLING TIJUAS

 

[Pompal 09.]

Some people are willing to risk it. Others are not. For close to a decade I used to go to TJ at least once a month. Now I go once or twice a year after being shaken down for bribes TWICE by cops in less than 6 months. I haven't seen violence in the Zona firsthand in over 6 years. But, there is tension in the air in TJ. It is not a happy place.

Tijuana Strip Turns Ghostly In Wake of Drug Violence
As Tourists Increasingly Shun Mexico's Border Cities, Many Businesses Can't Survive
By Manuel Roig-Franzia
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, June 16, 2008; A15

TIJUANA, Mexico -- A shop on Avenida Revolucion was once considered a surefire gold mine.

Day trippers poured over America's busiest border crossing, just south of San Diego, and bought mountains of jewelry, crafts and leather goods. Mexican families schemed to own -- or lease -- a piece of an eight-block stretch of the avenue, generally thought to be the most lucrative shopping district along the Mexican side of the border.

But when Gloria Flores retires at the end of this month, her art shop on Avenida Revolucion will go dark. None of her children want it, nor does anyone else. Soon it will be another vacancy among the abandoned businesses and for-rent signs on an avenue whose decline illustrates the corrosive and mushrooming effect of drug violence on Mexico's legal economy.

Daylight gun battles, beheadings and kidnappings have scared away tourists, forced layoffs and turned some areas of once-vibrant Mexican border cities into virtual ghost towns. The drug wars, which have killed more than 6,000 people in the past 2 1/2 years, have accelerated a decline that merchants also blame on the U.S. economic slowdown and delays at the border because of increased enforcement.

In Tijuana, where at least 200 people have been killed in drug violence this year, merchants say tourism is down as much as 90 percent compared with 2005, when an estimated 4 million people visited. Half of the downtown businesses -- more than 2,400 -- are shuttered. Farther east along the border, empty markets have become the norm in Ciudad Juarez, where fighting between rival cartels has killed 200 people this year. In Nuevo Laredo, five hotels have shut down.

"We're touching bottom," said Andrés Méndez, an Avenida Revolucion shop owner. "This is the barometer for what can happen in the rest of our city and the rest of our country."

There have been robberies and assaults of tourists, but no reports of tourists being killed, Baja California Tourism Secretary Oscar Escobedo Carignan said in an interview. But the few Americans who come across the border now are often startled by the sight of heavily armed Mexican soldiers, patrolling streets in armored vehicles to confront drug traffickers.

"I wouldn't come down here if it wasn't safe," Richard Brown, a longtime tour bus driver, said while waiting for his small group of passengers on Avenida Revolucion. "But when the passengers see these soldiers coming down the streets pointing machine guns, it kind of leaves a black mark."

Mexico's beach resorts, though not immune from drug violence, seem to be faring well because they are not as closely associated with it in the eyes of most foreigners, tour operators say. Even Acapulco, where five severed heads were rolled onto a nightclub floor two years ago, has managed to maintain a strong flow of vacationers.

But in stores along Avenida Revolucion, entire days can go by without a single sale. Flores, who has run her business for more than 30 years, could once count on taking in at least $6,000 a month. The tiny shop, which sells handicrafts, paid for three of her children to go to college and sustained the family after her husband's sudden death.

But now, she seldom records more than $300 in monthly sales. The sons she had hoped would inherit her lease have moved to the United States to look for work.

"No one thought this would have happened," she said one recent afternoon as the hours passed with no customers.

As Flores spoke, a man in a dirty T-shirt ducked his head into her doorway. Salvador Escareٌo had worked for 30 years as a salesman in a nearby shop. But the shop closed, and he now scrapes by with odd jobs. On this day he was trying to make a few pesos by selling five tiles scavenged from a remodeling job.

"Look, I've got two children, the food prices are going up and up -- I've got to do something," he said.

Méndez has had to close four of his six clothing stores and lay off more than 40 employees. He's down to just two workers, one for each remaining shop.

The downturn has had less obvious consequences, even endangering public health. In Tijuana's now mostly empty strip clubs, prostitutes have grown so desperate that they are increasingly willing to engage in risky behavior such as having unprotected sex.

"I'll do that now -- let the customer go without a condom -- if they pay me an extra $10," Katia, a longtime Tijuana prostitute, said in an interview. "I know I shouldn't, but I need the money."

The ripple effect goes far beyond the border area. Flores has to turn away the indigenous artists who travel from the states of Guerrero and Oaxaca to supply her store with wooden masks and delicate clay figures. Most are subsistence farmers whose art sales kept them out of extreme poverty, she said.

"I don't know who they'll sell to now," Flores said. "No one is buying."

Mexican tourism officials are alarmed and have accused Mexican and U.S. media of exaggerating the violence.

"The problem is that the perception of violence is much greater than the actual situation, especially in the city of Tijuana," said Escobedo, the state tourism secretary. "The city of Tijuana is much safer than Washington, D.C."

Escobedo cited official statistics showing there were 16 killings in Tijuana last year per 100,000 residents, though the rate appears to be higher this year. The homicide rate in Washington was 29 per 100,000 residents in 2006, according to the FBI's most recent annual report.

The state tourism agency has launched a promotional campaign, and Escobedo points out that spring break hot spots, such as San Felipe on the Gulf of California, are still doing well.

Tijuana officials responded to the problem of police demanding bribes from tourists by instituting a "safety zone" near Avenida Revolucion, and the state has deployed roving crews to help stranded motorists. But it's unclear whether the measures are having any lasting effect. Surfers, for instance, have been abandoning beaches near Tijuana after a recent string of attacks and robberies.

On the other side of the border, tour operators who once took busloads of passengers to Tijuana are beset by cancellations. Lenny Papp, a longtime guide, said five to 10 busloads of conventioneers used to travel from San Diego to Mexico each week.

"Now, you're lucky to get one or two a week," he said.

One recent afternoon, Papp found himself at Disneyland on a day he usually reserved to take tourists to Tijuana. Papp, who books tours from the Welk Resort in Escondido, just north of San Diego, said he believes Tijuana's shopping districts and other tourist attractions are safe. But he had to cancel the Tijuana trip because only six people signed up. Not long ago, he was routinely taking down two buses, with 47 passengers each, he said.

"The news they hear scares them to the point they say, 'I don't want to go down there and get shot,' " Papp said.

There is anecdotal evidence that Tijuana's problems may be benefiting attractions in San Diego. Tour operators say clients who used to shop on Avenida Revolucion are now bargain-hunting in San Diego's Old Town or opting for trips to Sea World, the San Diego Zoo and the Hotel del Coronado, where the Marilyn Monroe classic "Some Like It Hot" was filmed.

On a recent sunny morning, crowds strolled along the Embarcadero on San Diego's waterfront. Pete and Trudie Marceaux, who live in San Diego, had mapped out a chockablock touring schedule for Pete's sister, Rose Robideaux, and her husband, Clark. Mexico used to be on the regular route when visitors were in town, but not anymore.

"We feel a whole lot safer here than going down there and being part of a shootout with a drug cartel," Pete Marceaux said.

Papp, the tour operator, has heard the same thing. Ten years ago, he threw a 40th birthday party for his wife in Rosarito Beach, just south of Tijuana. Since then, he has bought a condominium in Rosarito, and he thought it would be the perfect spot for his 60th birthday bash this month.

He sent out invitations, but then the phone calls started. Suspiciously, it seemed, many of his friends -- some of whom had attended his wife's party -- said they were busy that weekend.

Finally, he said, one friend told him, "With all the stuff going on -- as much as we'd love to celebrate your birthday with you -- we'd rather wait. If you have it over here, we'll be there."

A few days before the party, he realized that not one friend would attend.

 

[roxy07]

athlonnx: Yes, CNN, NBC, Fox, The Associated Press are ALL Wrong! Let's all just listen to Fireballs and pretend everything is OK in TJ, after all he is the ultimate authority....


At least we know what kool aid he likes.If CNN,NBC,FOX,AP told you it was dangous why are you still go down there?


FB:The fact is that Athlonnx sounds like a pretty inexperience monger, because he is visiting clip joints along Revolution instead of the zona, where the real action is?

Yes he is a sucker,look at the thread he post about useing mexican money.He was going to one rev club after other getting ripped off.

athlonnx:A few months ago we were at a Revolucion bar and I happen to have mexican money.

The waiter qouted me $25 USD for our drinks. So of course, I was like, so that's 250 pesos right? Nope... He wanted about 300 pesos. What the fuck?? Aparrently they charge a premium for using Mexican pesos in Mexico. He told me that they do not use an exchange rate of 10 to 1, but something stupid like 11 or 12 to 1.

Obviously, I just paid in dollars as I wasn't gonna give this piece of shit and his crummy, almost girl-less bar free money.

We went to another bar and the same thing happened! Again what the fuck?!

 

[sally p]

Athlonnx wrote:

Yes they sensationalizes the hell out of the stories and make you feel feel a trip to TJ is like being in the middle of Baghdad. TJ is no more dangerous than most big cities in the US, and if fact I feel better walking alone at night in TJ than I do in a place like Detroit.

The TJ cops will sometimes shake down drunk gringos, or mongers with the 'dear in the headlights' look, although those kind of reports are down this last year, and I don't even see the TJ cops near the taxi drop off anymore, and if I do it's usually one one cop.

Now Athlonnx you didn't say you were guilty of anything? Were you drunk, or had any illegal on you? If not you could have called the TJ cops bluff, and if you did nothing wrong they would have dropped you off in about 45 minutes after talking you on a tour of the city.

And if you didn't want a tour of the city, you could have negotiated that $100 dollar bribe down to $ 40 dollars or even $20 dollars.

There is also the possibility that Athlonnx is making the whole thing up about getting robbed by the TJ cops in order to try to win a argument about the dangers of TJ......since he didn't mention the "shakedown" in the first place?

The fact is that Athlonnx sounds like a pretty inexperience monger, because he is visiting clip joints along Revolution instead of the zona, where the real action is?

Again my advice is walking from REVO to the zona is not dangerous at all, but if 5 or 6 blocks will kill you, then take a cab,and if your really scared take the cab also, but try not to pay over $3 dollars including tip. In the end it's your ass, do what you want.

 

[XxXanYniiXxX]

No Joke that the media sensationalizes their stories. They will make you believe bullets are flying into the US if you read their stories at face value.

 

[Sudeep King of Scorn]

Yes, CNN, NBC, Fox, The Associated Press are ALL Wrong! Let's all just listen to Fireballs and pretend everything is OK in TJ, after all he is the ultimate authority....

The last time I walked from Revolucion to La Zona, I got picked-up by the cops. They took me on a half-hour ride and it ended up costing us about $100.

Putting your head in the sand and pretending everything is A-Ok in TJ is beyond stupid. And so are your comments.

That being said, I still go to TJ and have a good time. I'm just extremely cautious and don't take chances.

 

[Gbubb]

I second everything Fireballs said.

TJ does have a relatively high homicide rate, but the victims are mostly gangsters and cops. so in my opinion if you are a tourist it is about as dangerous as many large cities in the US, if you are a drug dealer or a prosecutor, you might have a short life span.

The cops are a problem, but if you are informed they are more of an annoyance.

I like to think of TJ as the land of personal responsibility, you have a lot more freedom in terms of drinking, whoring, etc. but it is also unforgiving of foolish behavior. You need to find what level of risk you are comfortable with, it is not as safe as staying home.

 

[Mad_Anthony]

Athlonnx wrote:

You friend didn't get ripped off, or rather it depends how you look at it. At Amnesia the teaser rates start at $20 dollars. That's a lap dance behind curtains with very little privacy, she keeps her clothes on and gives you a lap dance similar to what you find in the states. At $40 dollars she'll remove more clothes it's in a private room, and there is more touching. At $60 she is totally nude, she allows you to touch everywhere and she may touch you back. Not a good way to spend your money espeically with the zona just down the street, but in terms of the nasty factor she'll do more when you give her $60 instead of just $20. ( I try to avoid this bar)

I disagree I don't think that walk is dangerous at all walking from Revolution to the zona. I think the only reason to take a cab is because you don't want to walk those 5 to 10 blocks depending where you are on REVO. With taxi libre it should have been only a couple of bucks at the most.

I would advise anyone to just stay away from Revolution and just go to the zona, for the better deals, and you know for sure you'll get laid.

If you are a drug cartel member then TJ could be a very dangerous city. I have yet to hear about any mongers losing their heads over something they do in the zona.

 

[Rt Hon Alfy G Returns]

If La Zona was closed for five hours last weekend, does anyone know if this is a regular occurence every weekend? Any insight on how often the Federal police have been at La Zona. Getting a shake down by the police is no fun for me, I might reconsider going this weekend, any info. would help.

 

[A Guy]

athlonx:

Always keep in mind that you are in a VERY dangerous city. There are many Board members who will dispute this fact, but all you need to do is read a newspaper to see otherwise:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080827-9999-1m27tjdead.html


Yes I going to dispute this fact ,One the people kill in TJ most of the time are drug cartel members, you acting like they kidnap mongers are something.

Two people online like to make things overrated heres an example:

wood9213:
Be Careful the ZN was shut Down for 5 hours last night. Rumor has it that a Narco got his head blown off at HK.. Any truth to that?

But thank god somebody stop this before it spread.

sampson:

Where did you hear that? I had a number of friends in Hong Kong during the search and somehow they missed the violence. The music was off, the lights were turned on, the chicas were moved out of the bar and the AFI and soldiers searched the bar and the employees and clients.



Always keep in mind that LA is a VERY dangerous city. There are many Board members who will dispute this fact, but all you need to do is read a newspaper to see otherwise:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/crime/homicidemap/
Heres one for you check the months of march 68 and may 50 homicides

 

[Bonkers D. Bobcat]

Well we got to Revolucion yesterday at about 9pm. We went to Amnesia. I don't particularly like this bar because it's more of a tourist trap than the other bars. My buddy was a newbie, I had told him that a lab dance is supposed to be $20. He still paid $60.... Go figure, new sucker born everyday, even after you try to educate....

We walked from Amnesia to Temptation. No problems. We did see a cop in a motercycle, which we avoided (waited until the light turned and he passed the intersection). We then went to the little white taco resturaunt and got food. We walked to some other bars until reaching the end of Revolucion.

We took a Taxi to La Zona, who overcharged us for the ride ($5). On arrival we noticed that all the streets at La Zona were blocked off by the Federal Police. So, we left and went back to San Diego thereafter.

----> In terms of safety, the key things to note about my trip report:

1. We avoided the police. These guys are the ones most likely to rob you. They are not your friends, stay away.

2. We took a taxi from Revolucion to La Zona. This is a key point. DO NOT walk from Revolucion to La Zona. It isn't worth the potential danger of being mugged or being targeted for a scam from police. Also, avoid my Taxi mistake by Negotiating the fare BEFORE you get in the taxi. It should be $3 from Revolucion to La Zona.

Always keep in mind that you are in a VERY dangerous city. There are many Board members who will dispute this fact, but all you need to do is read a newspaper to see otherwise:

Here's a news article about decapitated bodies found (August, 2008):

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080827-9999-1m27tjdead.html

 

[Rebecca A]

Do your research. There are plenty of posts, faq's, trip reports, etc. to read. Hire an escort or stay in la Zona or both. You'll be fine.

 

[CHINGON]

I regularly go 2-3 times a week, 1/2 the time solo. Never have a problem. Just don't get stoooopid drunk and don't do anything stoooopid. Just go down have fun with the chicas and go home.

 

[ape shit]

I was last in TJ in February of this year. It was safe enough, but we were also very cautious.

In November of 2007 some cops picked us up. A bar door man started following us and telling us about different stuff, mostly bullshit. He ran into a police car while crossing the street. The cops searched him and allegedly found drugs on him. Since he was with us, they took us for a ride also. We paid the cops about $100 total (there were 2 of us).

We will be going to TJ again tomorrow (Friday, which is acutally today). We plan on barhopping on Revolucion and then getting some street girls from "La Zona." I'll come back and post on our experiences on Saturday.

 

[Kerensa]

I'll be in California at the beginning of October and was thinking of crossing the border into Tijuana for a bit of fun. I'm hearing that it's gotten a bit dangerous though. Anyone got the lowdown - is it safe for tourists at the minute?