Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

yakevinhoo63

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So I want to see everyones opinion on this offer / position that I am stepping into (although not accepted yet, still need to do a practical portion of the interview):

There is a local chiropractor that recently also rented the space next to them and opened a massage clinic. They're doing a rub club (of course... ugh.) and the therapists are all IC's.

Rent for the space is $100/mo, they provide all linens, booking, billing and the room is available at any time. I am able to set my own hours (as little or as many as I want) and still able to come use a room if I have a client that wants to see me (even outside of my "available hours" basically) as they have enough rooms to have 1 for each therapist (at least for now -- 4 rooms, 4 therapists).

They are offering an initial $19 massage to get people in the door, which is awful. The MT gets $10 of that, and if the client signs up for the club, they get another $21.

From that point, every massage you do, you get paid depending on how many you do that pay period. Up to 20, it is $20/hr, 21-30 is $24/hr and 30-40 is $30/hr.

Any thoughts or opinions before I take the job? ;)
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

For one, the IRS will look at that situation, say, "Those are employees, not ICs" and fine the hell out of the owners. It may even be shut down, or at least forced to change the way it is set up to a legal business model.

You might want to give the owners a copy of the IRS definitions of Independent Contractors vs Employees, but I'd be cautious about working there. Concepts so poorly mapped out are not likely to be run well.
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

I must be confused on something on my side then -- why are you saying this is an employee situation not IC?
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

I guess they are thinking that since they are charging RENT (on top of taking commission - holy rubadubdub, batman!) that you are a "renter" not an employee.
Of course setting your rates would be what an employer would do (controlling how you conduct your business).

The way I see it they are screwing you with the rent thing - the pay structure for actual massages would be in-line, although on the low end - of what IC's get paid. I don't know too many people though that are booking more than 20 massages a week right now. I was maybe doing that many when the economy was better.
They have NO investment in the business by sub-letting space to massage therapists, PLUS everything that you make, or business that YOU bring in is gravy to them. They really have no incentive to do much in the way of marketing because for them, they can't lose. They make money no matter what. In the meantime you work your butt off trying to make it to that next level of commission, just hoping every week that somehow you will "make it".

Is there a limit on how many $19 massages you HAVE to do. Or a time limit on how long they want to run the "special"?
Making $10/hr isn't so hot and a $19 rate will bring all the cheapo's out (ie - no tips). You might get a few that sign up for the "club".
Seems like they are going after the Massage Envy crowd and trying to undercut them but using the same business model. And I think that ME has already snapped up all that they can - the members are starting to cancel their "memberships".

So - bottom line - this is a job so if you do not have one right now, it might be better than nothing. If you are a newer therapist, this is an opportunity to get some practice and improve your skills, and hopefully to interact with other therapists.

If they seem intent on that $100 rent, maybe you can get them to "waive" it for the period of the special - or make it so that you do not have to pay unless you make a minimum amount. And ask for a couple more bucks per massage too - you have nothing to lose.
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

Sorry, I left out that "i am a brand new therapist" part of the equation! Yes, I haven't had any other jobs in the field. I graduated in February, took my test in March, waited forever and a day for the state, and got my license in May/June (don't remember the exact date).

I currently have (and have had the entire time, including while going to school) a full time "regular job" that prevents me from doing much massage outside of it, and I just got to the point there (read: pissed at bosses and coworkers ;)) that I need to move on and get to fowarding my massage career rather than sitting there being treated like crap day to day.

I got a call back yesterday from another chiro in the area and it seems that they must have both been "trained" on this business model by the same person (his words) as he has the exact same set up. $19 massages for first time clients only plus the rub club. I was very excited to hear back from him and have a second option, potentially, and then very saddened to hear him say he was operating the exact same business model.

For what its worth, ME has a location south where I am but, I'd say that it is "out of the way" though for most, especially for those who live in this area. They don't like to go far or "to town" basically. There is another massage biz in the mall north of us, but again... that is going to the mall (ugh!) and i think most don't want to do that unless absolutely required ;)

I don't think they seem to have issues with getting people in the door and signing up for the club, it sounds to me like they need more therapists as they're turning people away actually.

I'll try to see if they'll defer the rent at least until November and give me an opportunity to see if it is something I want to stick around for or not. They were already going to defer until October, since Sept is half over... but we'll see.

While I mentioned they do the booking, billing, etc - I think I left out that I am able to set my own hours and availability. They simply have an online booking application that we are able to use (and the chiro asst helps with accepting the reservation requests and such) -- not that they're booking people at times and saying "ok, come in." all on their own accord.
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

If you are paying rent, then the whole Employee/IC thing is out the window. You are a renter, and whatever they put into a lease agreement is a contractual issue. They could even state the hours they are renting the room to you.

I would pass just based on the price point alone. NO way to gauge how many full priced customers will result, and chances are $19 to a full price is a hefty jump which will scare off 90% of the initial clientele
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

RelaxandRejuvenate said:
If you are paying rent, then the whole Employee/IC thing is out the window. You are a renter, and whatever they put into a lease agreement is a contractual issue. They could even state the hours they are renting the room to you.

I would pass just based on the price point alone. NO way to gauge how many full priced customers will result, and chances are $19 to a full price is a hefty jump which will scare off 90% of the initial clientele

I agree with this 100%.

If you're able to set your own hours and provide massage pretty much the way you want without being told how to do it, then you're not an employee.

I did the same thing as an MT - worked out of a facility for $25/hr per massage (but didn't get paid when I wasn't doing massage). I wasn't expected to do anything other than massage on my downtime (didn't have to answer the phone or do any filing)--although I did anyway just to help out. I got to wear kinda what I wanted, massage how I wanted, and set my own hours. They set the pricing, they booked the appointments, and they provided most of the supplies.

Now that I contract a massage therapist myself, we simply ask for her schedule and pay her when she does a massage. We provide pretty much EVERYTHING. She sets her hours and does the massage how she wants. She wears scrubs, something we mutually agreed upon - they're comfy for her and they're congruent with our clinic's image. She doesn't have to do anything but massage, although she often stocks water in the fridge or straightens stuff up around the office on her own. Of course, hehe it helps to have great morale! Although we only pay per massage, we do pay well. The arrangement works out great for all of us.

I, too, think that $10/hr pay is low - heck, I've never heard anything that low, not even back when I was wet behind the ears - and cost of living has risen considerably since then. I think I'd pass, too. As strained as the job market is, $10/hr seems somewhat predatory; people are often desperate, after all. Of course, it's up to each person to choose, but I would not choose a situation like that. Seriously, you're worth more than that, new or not :)
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

jyoti said:
I, too, think that $10/hr pay is low - heck, I've never heard anything that low, not even back when I was wet behind the ears - and cost of living has risen considerably since then. I think I'd pass, too. As strained as the job market is, $10/hr seems somewhat predatory; people are often desperate, after all. Of course, it's up to each person to choose, but I would not choose a situation like that. Seriously, you're worth more than that, new or not :)

I agree with that!

But I wouldn't just pass on it.
Potential employees (or whatever this is) can negotiate a better rate.
You don't just have to take what they offer!
 
Job offer (IC, Chiropractor, Rub Club)

"The Rub Club" is a chiropractor-designed profit-maximizing "practice-building" scheme. It assumes that massage is just a feel-good upsell that will keep people coming back to spend more money, and the compensation plan reflects this. Good for the chiropractor, not so good for the MTs.
 
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  33. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹Limited Time Special Promotion๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹ โœ…๐Ÿ’ฆ30 Minutes Nude Massage w
  34. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom Spa ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน3 girls ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ5124 Dundas St W Etobicokeโ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366๐Ÿ‘ New girl Cherry (Student)๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜โ€œcharming breasts.โ€beautiful curvy hips.โ€very provocative service๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜, professional super Luna deep tissue massage, has therapeutic effect to loosen bones and relieve muscle pressure and will bring you unexpected service effects, she will bring you a little surprise๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜โค๏ธ You are welcome to make an appointment at any time or walk in the back door with plenty of parking spaces
  35. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Click Here Today๐ŸŒธAlisa๐ŸŒธNina๐ŸŒธAntonela๐ŸŒธMya๐ŸŒธCindy Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  36. Golden Flower Spa:
  37. AliceSpa:
    FRIDAY at ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—–๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด-๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿต๐Ÿด. Alice spa has 3 very hot girls today. Open 10am to 9pm: AMY (12pm โ€“ 9pm) is a young, petite short & slim Taiwanese, former dance instructor, firm natural B Cups, pretty face, firm natural titis, super play good, bbbj, cim, rim, dfk, all services. APPLE (12:30pm-9pm): from Hong Kong, very small body, 5' 100Lbs
  38. BlueXado Therapy & Spa:
  39. Pink Flower Spa:
  40. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ PRIYA, AMMU, MONIKA, PAOLA, SASHA, AMANDA, SUMMER, ANGEL, ANGELINA, DIYA ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  41. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 4 masseuse are working today. Young sweet Lily 25โ€™s with curve body and new young pretty student Chloe 25โ€™s,fun sex Tina with curve body open mind and cute GFE Lina are providing deep tissue massage, pls call 4163985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available. 350 Wilson Ave North York
  42. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center : New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Mia๏ผŒyoung girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Aad,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  43. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Ivy , Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Jessica ,Young girl Big-breasted big Big boobs big butts May, Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary . ๐Ÿ  2560 Shepard Ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ 4379857899 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  44. HollywoodSpa:
    Friday at ๐ŸŽญ๐—›๐—ข๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ฌ๐—ช๐—ข๐—ข๐—— ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐ŸŽญ, 4578 Yonge St, Unit 100, North York, ON: MIMI & TRACY. โ˜Ž416-222-5554โ˜Ž MIMI is a slim Chinese spinner hottie with a great ass, great body slide & liberal services. TRACY is a slim, taller & pretty lady, very friendly with an extensive menu. When you visit ๐ŸŽญHollywood Spa๐ŸŽญ, you will be treated with tender care and your visit will be fulfilling
  45. ForeverWarden:
    Friday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ : Bobo, Mimi & Sasa. Bobo is a small, slim and sexy lady, petite with all natural busty melons for your enjoyment. Mimi is a nice slim lady with a big bottom, & great oral skills to take you to paradise. Sasa is a slim & sweet Korean lady, about 5โ€™4โ€ with C Cups.
  46. HolidaySpa:
    Friday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธ: LINA & CINDY. LINA is very well known for her great services and her impressive shapely ass. Come and see why! You will be glad you did. CINDY is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best!
  47. SugarLoveSpa:
    Friday at โค๏ธ๐Ÿ’™ ๐Ÿ’œโŽ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—š๐—”๐—ฅ ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”โŽ ๐Ÿ’–๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’˜: CAMILLA, ELLA, KELLY, LUNA & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž CAMILLA is from Mexico and Indiana, her father was Indian, her mom was Mexican & she's 1.57 tall with nice full melons. ELLA is a lovely Thai sweetheart, 5โ€™1โ€ with C Cups, smooth skin and a very pleasing attitude.
  48. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Yumi๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ’‹A striking new tall gorgeous Korean model with long, flowing reddish-brown hair cascading down her back and a slender, elegant figure that exudes grace and poise. Yumiโ€™s natural confidence and allure, make her approachable
  49. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Sami Vietnamese Girl Cherry ๐Ÿ’ From Malaysia Jessica Pretty Girl with amazing personality Barbie Petite Korea Part time School girl Sasa friendly Vietnamese Judy Vietnamese โ˜Ž๏ธ647- 446-0886
  50. luckywellness:
    Lucky Wellness Center 4379721888 295 Eglinton Ave E,Unit 7,Mississauga Kiki and Sophie works
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