NEED HELP ASAP!!!!!---LAW ISSUE!

[Cloe Scott]

Hi all, I am a massage parlor in NJ. I just received a letter from a lawyer that his client is suing someone else. His client told the lawyer that she went to my place for a massage service on 6/7/06. Now, the lawyer wants us to provide the medical record for this lady, his client.

The problem I am facing now is--I don't keep any record or information for my customers since most of them don't want to. Thus, what should I do with this lawyer letter? I cannot just throw it away, but at the same time, I don't have any record for that lady. I don't not even know who that is.

WHAT SHOULD I DO??? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[$hanea :)]

If the law doesn't require you to keep records on cash clients, send him a copy of that section of the law and tell him that your "parlor" doesn't keep session notes.

At the very least, however, you should have an appointment record or sales receipt on this client. Not keeping ANY records at all in a business establishment is just asking for an investigation.

If NJ law requires you to document sessions, you have a problem.

As a sidenote: "massage parlor"??? While I have no problem with people still using the terms "masseuse" and "masseur" (and I would be in the minority on that,) "massage parlor" is inextricably tied with suggestion of prostitution, and I'm a little surprised that anyone in this profession legitimately would still use that terminology.

 

[Alaa]

As a sidenote: "massage parlor"??? While I have no problem with people still using the terms "masseuse" and "masseur" (and I would be in the minority on that,) "massage parlor" is inextricably tied with suggestion of prostitution, and I'm a little surprised that anyone in this profession legitimately would still use that terminology.

I don't keep any record or information for my customers since most of them don't want to.

I think this poster is being honest that his business is not therapeutic massage. Is that the case? Otherwise, why would you keep no records at all of your business?

 

[Max Powers]

Well... if she doesnt have a reciept and paid cash, you have no record of her being there, and you dont remember her being there... how do you know for sure she was there?? Maybe she was and maybe she wasnt! It is your word against hers.

 

[Summer099]

But if the "parlor" is honestly not therapeutic or legitimate, why would a lawyer be requesting medical records?

 

[Sick Jane]

You can honestly report to the lawyer that you have no record of this client.

Agreed w/the above that keeping no records may be asking for an investigation, depending on state law. But lawyers do often cast a wide net asking for as much as possible, knowing that they will not get everything requested. Remember too, that a letter from a lawyer is not necessarily the same thing as a subpoena from a court. (Of course, even with a subpoena, you can only submit what you have. Unless not keeping records is a crime in your state, there is not necessarily a legal problem.)

I think very often people get freaked out when they get something from a lawyer, thinking, "This means I'm in trouble! I'm being sued!" In reality, this is a letter from someone else's advocate/mouthpiece, politely requesting information if you have it.

 

[Nichole]

NEED HELP ASAP!!!!!---LAW ISSUE!

Hi all, I am a massage parlor in NJ.



The problem I am facing now is--I don't keep any record or information for my customers since most of them don't want to. Thus, what should I do with this lawyer letter? I cannot just throw it away, but at the same time, I don't have any record for that lady. I don't not even know who that is.

I am not sure as to why your clients don't want you keeping records of their visits, except that as a "massage parlor" providing erotic services you might have a clientelle that doesn't want it.

I'd be interested in seeing some clarification on that, just because you mentioned it.



Anyhow, if you don't keep records, you can just tell the attorney what you said:
"I don't keep any record or information for my customers."

That is an honest answer from what you have stated.

If you are required to pull something, I'd suggest looking in what records you do have for the clients name and date of service, along with the type of service and providing this info to the atty.

Please follow up on this thread by letting us know the outcome.

 

[Ann-G]

In NJ it is very lax on what is needed, and I do not believe it was mandatory to have a client record at that point in time. Now that they have made the MT registry stricter as a license it was a point on the proposal.

This was a major issue that I had while I was working in NJ, that my place of employment rarely had them fill out an intake form, and it was so general that it didn't apply to massage. They said that if I wanted to do an intake then I could, but my manager wouldn't have them fill it out while they were waiting, so it cut into their MT time, and backed me up too much to do it anymore.

So, I would just state that fact, that an intake and client records were not taken. This does give you a huge liability risk by not having one.

 

[student]

I'm guessing that since you are calling yourself a "masage parlor" and don't keep records because you clients don't want you to, that you are not the type of massage establishment that most of us here on the board work in.

State certification is not mandatory in the state of NJ. If you were certified, you would know that you are required to keep records and would have done so. My guess is that you are not certified. If you are not, then you can just inform the attorney that the state of NJ does not require you to keep client medical records if you are not state certified.

If you are "one of those" types of establishments, please, out of respect for true Massage Therapists who have trained for the profession and are upholding the ethics and standards of our profession, please do not in any way try to pass your establishment off as being a place for therapeutic massage.

 

[Shayy <3]

If you were certified, you would know that you are required to keep records and would have done so.

Just to be clear, not all states require specific kinds of record-keeping in the language of the law, even states where massage is regulated. In some states it is enough to record that you received money for service rendered, for tax purposes - intake and notes are not necessarily mentioned.

 

[Pants On The Ground]

First of all, thanks for all your replies.

Second, I SUCCESSFULLY FINISHED ALL TRAINING COURSE FROM A LEGAL, REGISTERED MASSAGE SCHOOL!!!! :?

I used "massage parlor" this word because it is what my local township uses! On the business license issued by township government, they put "massage parlor" on it! :twisted:

I have 2 licenses from the local township, one is the "massage parlor"(for my business), another one is the "masseuse"(for myself). In addition, all my employees receive their own "masseuse" licenses from the township government. I have to hang all these licenses on the wall so that anyone comes into the business know we are certified.

I have no idea why they still use these words, but there's nothing I can do to tell the government stop using them! :x

Anyway, go back to the letter issue. I called the lawyer today and told him that I just can't find any record for his client. He said that's fine, he will take care of it.

But I do have more questions about keeping record of customers. How do you keep record? Give them a form to fill out during first visit, like visiting a doctor? It is normal to ask them for personal information, such as name, home address & phone number? I didn't keep customers' record because I think getting a massage is like getting a nail service. I don't think most nail salon keep customer info? I am not sure about this, if I am wrong, please correct me. :?:

Also, there are always so many customers just walk in without appointments. How should I keep record of that?

I just started the business last year so there are a way more to learn how to handle a THERAPEUTIC MASSAGE business. If you can provide any suggestion, I am really appreciated!

 

[x_babygurl_x]

Oh, one more question--what word should I use instead of using "parlor" and "masseuse"? :roll:

 

[googly eyes]

Oh, one more question--what word should I use instead of using "parlor" and "masseuse"? :roll:

Massage Center
Massage Clinic
Day Spa


Massage Therapist
Massage Practitioner
Certified Massage Therapist
Licensed Massage Therapist...........

I'd probably have to open my practice in a DIFFERENT town than one that insisted on using the old "place of ill repute" terminology!! (I do not hold it against you or any other legitimate therapists in your town - just against the town government!!)

 

[cristal c]

Second, I SUCCESSFULLY FINISHED ALL TRAINING COURSE FROM A LEGAL, REGISTERED MASSAGE SCHOOL!!!! :?

When did you graduate from school? 50 years ago?? I cant believe a modern school doesnt teach record keeping, client intake, and some sort of session notation.

 

[hello]

What school did you go to? I can't imagine there is any school in NJ that isn't teaching the proper terminology. And, it's difficult to believe that you didn't pick it up on your own by reading these boards or any massage magazines or massage web sites.

I'm wondering why you chose to lie to the attorney and tell him you couldn't find the records, instead of just telling him that you aren't required by law to keep them.

As for record keeping, why is it that you seem to have no clue why records would be necessary and how to go about keeping them? Massage is NOT like getting a manicure, and you would have learned that in any reputable massage school. What school did you go to and how many hours was the course? I know that there are plenty of spas and massage clinics that do not keep SOAP notes on each client, and while I do not agree with that practice, when questioned about it, they know what they are and why someone would keep them!

I have never met any massage therapist personally, or on any of the message boards that I participate in that get a lot of walk-ins like you do. Other board posters, please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

Wow! You just opened your business last year and you are already able to be able to say "all my employees"????? What town are you in? Sounds like there are a lot of people with sore muscles.

 

[The Other One]

I have no idea why they still use these words, but there's nothing I can do to tell the government stop using them!

Not true! That's one of the great things about our governmental system. If you think the laws need to be changed for what ever reason, you have the right to petition the courts/counsels/etc. to get the wording and the law changed. It may take some work by YOU, but with time and perseverance, it can be done.

 

[glgl]

I agree with Dodab on that one too.

And, just because that's what the label is from the township, doesn't mean that you need to refer to yourself that way.

I'm still bothered by the whole idea that the poster seems to be totally clueless about record keeping and proper terminology, has so many walk-ins and with less than a year in business, has all those employees. Doesn't sound to me like it's legit.

 

[Edwina Monsoon]

Wow... some of the replies in this thread don't meet my needs for tact and politeness!

I'm one of the first to get up in arms about terminology I consider to be, at best, "outmoded"... to come back to a thread where I had asked for help though and read some of the replies here would certainly encourage me not to come back.

Anyway, to get back to the subject at hand, correct me if I'm wrong but... unless it was a subpoena, the recipient of a letter from an attorney "requesting" a document doesn't have to do anything. Right?

 

[Pompal 09.]

I have never met any massage therapist personally, or on any of the message boards that I participate in that get a lot of walk-ins like you do. Other board posters, please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

It does happen. I remember at least one poster here (Mimi) whose spa/clinic got lots of foot traffic. There are 2 medium-sized massage business here in my town that depend on walk-ins. One is mostly table; the other has 2 chair people, a smoothie counter, and 2 table rooms. They do keep fairly busy. Both are in strip malls, both are open until 7pm, and I think it's brilliant! Exhausting and expensive : , but brilliant nonetheless . . .

I'm still bothered by the whole idea that the poster... has so many walk-ins and with less than a year in business, has all those employees. Doesn't sound to me like it's legit.

There is also a multi-practitioner clinic here, the largest in town with 6 practitioners on staff and lots of same-day appointments (not much walk-in now at their new location), that opened up with a full staff on its first day. Practitioner-owned, great big retail space for MT supplies and yoga-teacher supplies, 3 table rooms, Thai room, classroom, 2 showers, sauna, footbath space - it's gorgeous, they took out a big loan to open it, and sold it within 3 years at a profit, to a new practitioner/owner who is still running it at a profit. An unusual setup and a big risk, but I just thought I'd throw it out there that it totally does happen. And this is in a town of 60,000 that is *crammed* with massage practitioners.

 

[King]

The replies are being kind of hard on this poster, but I can understand why. Something doesn't make sense and as Judge Judy says "if it doesn't make sense it's because it's not true".

However, it does sound from the reading of the poster's posts, English may not be their first language, so I would have to ask if the poster learned massage in another country?

As a fellow Jerseyite, I'd have to say I don't know of a school that doesn't teach how to fill out intake forms or have part of the curriculum of the business of massage. Even if the owner doesn't know of this, the therapists working for him/her should.

In the posters defense, a town a friend of mine lives in calls it "masseuses" and "massage parlor" and still has on law that a woman cannot massage a man and a man cannot massage a female. Archaic, no?