Pete said:
BlackSwanMassage said:
Now contrast that with the woman who gets up off my table with a shoulder that, by her own admission, feels better than it has in ten years. put the remaining $5.16 toward a tip for me. $5.16. On a $126 therapeutic massage......It wasn't that she didn't want to spend the money--it was that she didn't want to give it to me for the time and effort I put into fixing her structural issues.
Compare that with the woman who got a 30 minute relaxation massage from me today and left me a $10 tip--almost 25% gratuity, compared with about 4.5% from the first woman--and I only saw her for 30 minutes!
BlackSwan, sounds to me as if you're making the point in my previous post. It's very possible the "B-Witch" in the first scenario viewed you as a health care provider and the second one viewed you as a service provider.
I understand what you're getting at, and when I worked for the chiro, I never expected a tip--the one or two that left me one quite frankly shocked me. But a spa is a different environment, and a good number of clients tend to view massage as a luxury/relaxation concept (at least in this area.) I was frequently treated as a luxury item in the chiro's office as well, with a lot of his patients deciding to "skip" treatment--a decision often encouraged by the chiro, who saw me as more of a do-boy than a supplemental provider. So...
These people can't have it both ways. Either we're a luxury, or we're health-care providers. But don't come in expecting basic relaxation, ignore my suggestions for improvement of your conditions, and then refuse to tip on the supposition that I'm a health care provider. That might fly with someone else, but not with me.
So, come and see me at a doctor's office, where I'm fully compensated and well-taken care of by the doc (in this town? Yeah, right!), and leave no tip, or come see me when you get your nails painted and your hair done, and tip me the same way you do everyone else there.
Side note: I went to the home of a physician's husband some time back, and worked on his for an hour. Neuromuscular work. All therapeutic. Health care.
When he got up and wrote me the check, he tipped me $30 above my regular fee. Yes, the spouse of a doctor tipped a health car provider.
Looks like there's no easy answer to this one, huh?[/quote]
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Topic review - Spas & tip handling question
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tranquilspirit2006
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We do our own front desk work, no receptionist. I would never EVER ask someone about adding gratuity. Along the same lines, when someone hands me $70 cash for a $65 service, I never ask 'Do you want change back?' I've had both done to me as a customer and I DON'T LIKE IT. I will always say 'Let me get you your change!'. If they want, they can tell me to keep it then, and if not, they get their change back.
I never thought anyone was cheap for not tipping me. Some people are scraping just to be able to afford to come in once a month. When I was working my butt off for a doc and making $10 an hour, six and a half hours work was a lot of money to pay for a service. I understand that, and don't judge anyone as being cheap or rude for not tipping. I will never guilt or hint someone into tipping. If they wish to, I am appropriately and humbly thankful, if they don't, they still get the same big smile and Thank you, it was good seeing you again/meeting you, I hope you enjoyed it, please come again or whatever comments are appropriate.
I am so thankful to be doing what I love and love what I'm doing **and** getting paid for it that that alone is enough for me. Anything more is just a very nice extra and that's it.
EDA-I work in a spa.
We do our own front desk work, no receptionist. I would never EVER ask someone about adding gratuity. Along the same lines, when someone hands me $70 cash for a $65 service, I never ask 'Do you want change back?' I've had both done to me as a customer and I DON'T LIKE IT. I will always say 'Let me get you your change!'. If they want, they can tell me to keep it then, and if not, they get their change back.
I never thought anyone was cheap for not tipping me. Some people are scraping just to be able to afford to come in once a month. When I was working my butt off for a doc and making $10 an hour, six and a half hours work was a lot of money to pay for a service. I understand that, and don't judge anyone as being cheap or rude for not tipping. I will never guilt or hint someone into tipping. If they wish to, I am appropriately and humbly thankful, if they don't, they still get the same big smile and Thank you, it was good seeing you again/meeting you, I hope you enjoyed it, please come again or whatever comments are appropriate.
I am so thankful to be doing what I love and love what I'm doing **and** getting paid for it that that alone is enough for me. Anything more is just a very nice extra and that's it.
EDA-I work in a spa.
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:46 am
Seattlesunshine
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okay, now that that is settled! Back to Josh's question. I think it may be confusing to have so many tip areas. The front desk is the place for them i believe. I rarely am tipped in the room. If that does happen and the front desk asks if you would like to leave a gratuity then I know I have had clients say something to the effect of "oh i left it with her already". The place I sub puts the tips in an envelope and in a lock box. We sign them out at the end of the shift. I don't think its asking a whole lot to have the reception area take care of this. Most people deal with cc anyway so its necessary to do it that way. Good luck, its often hard to change the way things are done. It sure sounds like it needs some work.
okay, now that that is settled! Back to Josh's question. I think it may be confusing to have so many tip areas. The front desk is the place for them i believe. I rarely am tipped in the room. If that does happen and the front desk asks if you would like to leave a gratuity then I know I have had clients say something to the effect of "oh i left it with her already". The place I sub puts the tips in an envelope and in a lock box. We sign them out at the end of the shift. I don't think its asking a whole lot to have the reception area take care of this. Most people deal with cc anyway so its necessary to do it that way. Good luck, its often hard to change the way things are done. It sure sounds like it needs some work.
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:07 am
pueppi
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BlackSwanMassage wrote: If you guys want to keep beating on me, you can do it without me here. I'm moving on to more interesting topics on this forum.
I can definitely say I wasn't trying to "beat" on you.
I thought I was being somewhat helpful with my post.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"] If you guys want to keep beating on me, you can do it without me here. I'm moving on to more interesting topics on this forum.[/quote]
I can definitely say I wasn't trying to "beat" on you.
I thought I was being somewhat helpful with my post. :smt102
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:30 am
BlackSwanMassage
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It's obvious that you guys are going to read whatever you want into what I'm saying. That's kind of amusing, really--you're going after me for attributing certain traits to this woman, but you're intentionally ignoring the explanations I've given when they don't meet with your desire to paint me as greedy/obnoxious/presumptious/prejudiced/whatever.
I've already stated my side of things. If you guys want to keep beating on me, you can do it without me here. I'm moving on to more interesting topics on this forum.
It's obvious that you guys are going to read whatever you want into what I'm saying. That's kind of amusing, really--you're going after me for attributing certain traits to this woman, but you're intentionally ignoring the explanations I've given when they don't meet with your desire to paint me as greedy/obnoxious/presumptious/prejudiced/whatever.
I've already stated my side of things. If you guys want to keep beating on me, you can do it without me here. I'm moving on to more interesting topics on this forum.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:18 pm
Breathe
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BlackSwanMassage wrote:You're either being intentionally obnoxious, or you're not reading my posts.Just had to comment on this: Another malicious assumption about a person's character based upon their honest response? Quote:We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting. Tell me you haven't adjusted your tip due to a server who can't seem to get it together and screws up your order two or three times. Tell me you don't think that our clients judge our work when we're not at the top of our game. Sure, there maybe outside factors involved. That cashier might have a mom who's dying. The server might be in the middle of a huge breakup with her boyfriend. The massage therapist might have a sick kid. But does any of that really register in our minds, if we're honest with ourselves? Not usually. Instead, we're pi$$ed because we have to wait in line longer due to an incompetent employee, we've had to endure two or three waits for our food while our friends have already eaten theirs, and we've paid out good money for a halfway decent massage.
Straight face: Yes, if a cashier screws up with a long line (or even just me,) I have thought less of her ability to do her job, I have NOT assumed she was a b!tch or stupid, or deliberately trying to ruin my day.
In restaurants, if I get poor service, and it's clear the problem is with the server, I will adjust the tip down and likely mention the issue to the manager. I do not assume that the server is a b!tch, or stupid, or selfish, or (fill in the attribute blank.)
My annoyance at the event does not lead me to assume that the individual is selfish, stupid, B1tch or B4strd, or any of the things you've attributed to this woman who enjoyed your massage, but only left you a $5 tip. It is also possible that she was told by the giver that tip was included, and thought the front desk was trying to put one over on her. Or perhaps she has a general misunderstanding of how much % a spa worker is paid, and was under the impression that you were already well compensated as an employee. Or maybe she is not accustomed to going to a spa, and didn't know what is a customary tip?
It is also possible that the front desk staff made the whole thing up, you were not there.
And regardless of whether the scenario is true or not, rather than being hurt or irritated or annoyed about the TIP, you have chosen to malign the giver with bad intentions (selfish, b1tch.)
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"]You're either being intentionally obnoxious, or you're not reading my posts.[/quote]Just had to comment on this: Another malicious assumption about a person's character based upon their honest response? [quote]We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting. Tell me you haven't adjusted your tip due to a server who can't seem to get it together and screws up your order two or three times. Tell me you don't think that our clients judge our work when we're not at the top of our game. Sure, there maybe outside factors involved. That cashier might have a mom who's dying. The server might be in the middle of a huge breakup with her boyfriend. The massage therapist might have a sick kid. But does any of that really register in our minds, if we're honest with ourselves? Not usually. Instead, we're pi$$ed because we have to wait in line longer due to an incompetent employee, we've had to endure two or three waits for our food while our friends have already eaten theirs, and we've paid out good money for a halfway decent massage.[/quote]
Straight face: Yes, if a cashier screws up with a long line (or even just me,) I have thought less of her ability to do her job, I have NOT assumed she was a b!tch or stupid, or deliberately trying to ruin my day.
In restaurants, if I get poor service, and it's clear the problem is with the server, I will adjust the tip down and likely mention the issue to the manager. I do not assume that the server is a b!tch, or stupid, or selfish, or (fill in the attribute blank.)
My annoyance at the event does not lead me to assume that the individual is selfish, stupid, B1tch or B4strd, or any of the things you've attributed to this woman who enjoyed your massage, but only left you a $5 tip. It is also possible that she was told by the giver that tip was included, and thought the front desk was trying to put one over on her. Or perhaps she has a general misunderstanding of how much % a spa worker is paid, and was under the impression that you were already well compensated as an employee. Or maybe she is not accustomed to going to a spa, and didn't know what is a customary tip?
It is also possible that the front desk staff made the whole thing up, you were not there.
And regardless of whether the scenario is true or not, rather than being hurt or irritated or annoyed about the TIP, you have chosen to malign the giver with bad intentions (selfish, b1tch.)
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:00 am
BJB-LMP
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If I were a member of the front desk staff, I would not have the least problem performing the tip-solicitation duty. I do absolutely see it as soliciting a tip (sorry), but it is not a heinous duty, it isn't difficult to script or say.
As a client, I personally would stop going to a spa where I was directly asked for a tip. I personally just will not put up with the culture of tipping -- I only do it for restaurant staff because I know they are taxed on a presumed tip intake rate, whether they collect that much or not. Nowhere else will I tip - bleh. And if I get resented for it behind my back, my reply would be, it's not my responsibility to figure out how much a nail tech/hairdresser/MT is making, how much they think they OUGHT to be making, and how much I've gotta tip to make them feel OK about their too-low wage.
As a practitioner, I'm not sure what I would do as I haven't worked in a situation like the one you're in Josh. I do know it would be really hard for me personally to be actively involved in recruiting/convincing someone to assist in tip solicitation (asking front to do it), while remaining detached from the hope for lots of tip income. That's a tough one.
If I were a member of the front desk staff, I would not have the least problem performing the tip-solicitation duty. I do absolutely see it as soliciting a tip (sorry), but it is not a heinous duty, it isn't difficult to script or say.
As a client, I personally would stop going to a spa where I was directly asked for a tip. I personally just will not put up with the culture of tipping -- I only do it for restaurant staff because I know they are taxed on a presumed tip intake rate, whether they collect that much or not. Nowhere else will I tip - bleh. And if I get resented for it behind my back, my reply would be, it's not my responsibility to figure out how much a nail tech/hairdresser/MT is making, how much they think they OUGHT to be making, and how much I've gotta tip to make them feel OK about their too-low wage.
As a practitioner, I'm not sure what I would do as I haven't worked in a situation like the one you're in Josh. I do know it would be really hard for me personally to be actively involved in recruiting/convincing someone to assist in tip solicitation (asking front to do it), while remaining detached from the hope for lots of tip income. That's a tough one.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:18 am
pueppi
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Re: Spas & tip handling question
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EgoMagickian wrote:The issue is that customers will often finish their massage, then use the facilities to sauna, etc, and seem to sometimes not even remember to tip on their way out if they haven't already.Another place I worked had the front desk asking, "Would you like to leave a gratuity for your massage therapist?" of *every* massage client that walked out. Even though some clients had already tipped the therapist in the room, I never saw anyone bothered by this question; no one seemed to feel "pressured".
The salon I worked at some time ago now, had a simple solution.
There were small tip envelopes at the check out. Each hair/esthetics/nail/massage client was asked as they left if they would like to leave a gratuity for their services rendered. Sometimes they would ask what was acceptable and were told 20%. They had the ability to leave it on the credit card receipt or in an envelope. The hair dresser/esthetician/nail tech/MT's name was put on the envelope when the tip was placed inside.
At the end of the day we were given our tip envelopes.
It worked out great, except for when we had one front desk staff who was stealing from the envelopes. She was let go.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for my private office, I don't encourage tipping. Then, if I get one, it's a nice bonus, but I never get bummed if I don't.
As for tipping on a gift certificate in my office. I don't care how much or how little a person leaves, again, because I don't expect a tip.
I charge for the service I provide. I expect that amount. If someone wants to pay above and beyond the expected amount, even if it is 3 pennies, that's just a bonus on top for me.
Oh, and as I scanned (didn't get a chance to read) this thread, I noticed there are some comments about concern for performance if a good tip is not received. I don't guage my perfomance on tips. It doesn't matter what I get, as I always try to do my best. I've had small tips and huge $100 tips. I tried to do as good for the guy who gave me .27 cents or whatever it was as for the guy who gave me the hundred. You can't really guage who would give you what, so it should not change performance or how you feel about yourself.
And, I also saw something about thinking ill of a cashier. Sometimes people are new and learning, sometimes it's a bad day. My response is usually determined by how much stress I have in my own life in those situations, but not because I am mad at the cashier. At least most of the time I find that to be true. On occasion you just have an imbicile who can't function, but I sort of categorize that as a different type of episode.
06/25/08 Edited for a typo or two. There may be more in there.
[quote="EgoMagickian"][b]The issue[/b] is that customers will often finish their massage, then use the facilities to sauna, etc, and seem to sometimes not even remember to tip on their way out if they haven't already.Another place I worked had the front desk asking, "Would you like to leave a gratuity for your massage therapist?" of *every* massage client that walked out. Even though some clients had already tipped the therapist in the room, I never saw anyone bothered by this question; no one seemed to feel "pressured". [/quote]
The salon I worked at some time ago now, had a simple solution.
There were small tip envelopes at the check out. Each hair/esthetics/nail/massage client was asked as they left if they would like to leave a gratuity for their services rendered. Sometimes they would ask what was acceptable and were told 20%. They had the ability to leave it on the credit card receipt or in an envelope. The hair dresser/esthetician/nail tech/MT's name was put on the envelope when the tip was placed inside.
At the end of the day we were given our tip envelopes.
It worked out great, except for when we had one front desk staff who was stealing from the envelopes. She was let go.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for my private office, I don't encourage tipping. Then, if I get one, it's a nice bonus, but I never get bummed if I don't.
As for tipping on a gift certificate in my office. I don't care how much or how little a person leaves, again, because I don't expect a tip.
I charge for the service I provide. I expect that amount. If someone wants to pay above and beyond the expected amount, even if it is 3 pennies, that's just a bonus on top for me.
Oh, and as I scanned (didn't get a chance to read) this thread, I noticed there are some comments about concern for performance if a good tip is not received. I don't guage my perfomance on tips. It doesn't matter what I get, as I always try to do my best. I've had small tips and huge $100 tips. I tried to do as good for the guy who gave me .27 cents or whatever it was as for the guy who gave me the hundred. You can't really guage who would give you what, so it should not change performance or how you feel about yourself.
And, I also saw something about thinking ill of a cashier. Sometimes people are new and learning, sometimes it's a bad day. My response is usually determined by how much stress I have in my own life in those situations, but not because I am mad at the cashier. At least most of the time I find that to be true. On occasion you just have an imbicile who can't function, but I sort of categorize that as a different type of episode.
[size=75]06/25/08 Edited for a typo or two. There may be more in there. :)[/size]
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:31 am
shivashiva
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Post subject:ย
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Breathe wrote:there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.The way I got over this was by working in a national park that was 100% tourists that came from all over the country and the world. It was very clear after working there for a bit that tipping is a learned thing, and it's usually associated with your culture. I could have a table full of italian people from Europe who LOVED me, asked me all kinds of questions, praised me for my service and literally left pennies on a $200 tab. They weren't being cheap. They were doing what they normally do, what they'd been taught to do. And many people are taught to be "cheap" by their family or the culture they live in. I also learned that people in the rural mid-west, and the south tend to tip very very poorly also and it's because that's what they're used to doing at home. Others, usually people from the big city, would tip me 20% + even if we didn't exchange a single pleasantry and their food was late.Eventually we started writing on their bill (only if they were from Europe) "Normal Tip: 15%" It was questionable whether this was allowed to be done and certain managers wouldn't let us do it, but in August when 75% of our customers were French, it made a HUGE difference in what we took home. I once actually followed a table of four who were European out the door when they left $1 on a $200 check. I knew they just didn't know, and that tip was going to really affect my wage for the evening. I just said "Hey, did you guys mean to leave this $1, cause usually people leave more?" Without the least bit of sneer they pulled out a twenty and handed it to me with a smile, then asked if that was enough! I was happy to get anything approaching 15% and thanked them sincerely and walked away.It is my belief that tipping is a learned behavior. Even if we perceive someone as being "cheap" on the tip while they're spending gobs of money on gifts for themself, it's really just what they learned is "right" from their parents and/or culture. Quote:We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting.
Here is my straight face. I may get angry, I may get impatient, I may get annoyed. But I don't project those emotions onto the cashier, or the server, or the therapist. I've been in the service industry waaaaaaay to long to do that. It's not superior sensitivity. It's just common sense and knowing that I've been where they are.
I went on a cruise when I was 21, before my service industry careers. My aunt bought it for me and I was hippie-broke. (Looking back on it, I did have a bit of money saved and could have left something, but because I was living on the road, I thought I needed to save it all for myself) I left no tip for anyone, all those envelopes they give you to take care of your people. And my aunt is naturally cheap on tips (I have left make-up tips when out to dinner with her) so she would never dream of helping me out on the tip scene. We were supposed to leave the tips the night before it was over. On the final breakfast my waitstaff literally shunned me. I felt so horrible! I didn't realize that most of their pay came from tips until years later.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I've been on the b!tch end of the tipping relationship and that adds to my inability to blame a poor tipper.
[quote="Breathe"]there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.[/quote]The way I got over this was by working in a national park that was 100% tourists that came from all over the country and the world. It was very clear after working there for a bit that tipping is a learned thing, and it's usually associated with your culture. I could have a table full of italian people from Europe who LOVED me, asked me all kinds of questions, praised me for my service and literally left pennies on a $200 tab. They weren't being cheap. They were doing what they normally do, what they'd been taught to do. And many people are taught to be "cheap" by their family or the culture they live in. I also learned that people in the rural mid-west, and the south tend to tip very very poorly also and it's because that's what they're used to doing at home. Others, usually people from the big city, would tip me 20% + even if we didn't exchange a single pleasantry and their food was late.Eventually we started writing on their bill (only if they were from Europe) "Normal Tip: 15%" It was questionable whether this was allowed to be done and certain managers wouldn't let us do it, but in August when 75% of our customers were French, it made a HUGE difference in what we took home. I once actually followed a table of four who were European out the door when they left $1 on a $200 check. I knew they just didn't know, and that tip was going to really affect my wage for the evening. I just said "Hey, did you guys mean to leave this $1, cause usually people leave more?" Without the least bit of sneer they pulled out a twenty and handed it to me with a smile, then asked if that was enough! I was happy to get anything approaching 15% and thanked them sincerely and walked away.It is my belief that tipping is a learned behavior. Even if we perceive someone as being "cheap" on the tip while they're spending gobs of money on gifts for themself, it's really just what they learned is "right" from their parents and/or culture. [quote]We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting.[/quote]
Here is my straight face. I may get angry, I may get impatient, I may get annoyed. But I don't project those emotions onto the cashier, or the server, or the therapist. I've been in the service industry waaaaaaay to long to do that. It's not superior sensitivity. It's just common sense and knowing that I've been where they are.
I went on a cruise when I was 21, before my service industry careers. My aunt bought it for me and I was hippie-broke. (Looking back on it, I did have a bit of money saved and could have left something, but because I was living on the road, I thought I needed to save it all for myself) I left no tip for anyone, all those envelopes they give you to take care of your people. And my aunt is naturally cheap on tips (I [i]have[/i] left make-up tips when out to dinner with her) so she would never dream of helping me out on the tip scene. We were supposed to leave the tips the night before it was over. On the final breakfast my waitstaff literally shunned me. I felt so horrible! I didn't realize that most of their pay came from tips until years later.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I've been on the b!tch end of the tipping relationship and that adds to my inability to blame a poor tipper.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:08 am
RelaxandRejuvenate
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Post subject:ย
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BlackSwanMassage wrote:We're in agreement on the subject of leaving tips aside and just doing the job, but you're wrong about the servers, I'm afraid. They make minimum wage--always.From the DOL website:Quote:A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employeeรขโฌโขs tips combined with the employerรขโฌโขs direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
Waitstaff EARNINGS always equal or exceed minimum wage, which is not the same as getting paid minimum wage.
Say you work 5 days, 40 hours a week, get $40 in tips per day.
According to the math above, you get 40 * $2.13 = $85.20. Tips = 5 * $40 = $200. Total earnings = $285.20. Over 2/3rds of your earnings are in tips, and it "subsidizes" the minimum wage.
Minimum Wage as of July 1 is $6.55. 40 hours * $6.55 = $262 Tips = 5 * $40 = $200. Total earnings = $462. Less than half of your earnings are in tips.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"]We're in agreement on the subject of leaving tips aside and just doing the job, but you're wrong about the servers, I'm afraid. They make minimum wage--always.From the DOL website:[quote]A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. [i]If the employeeรขโฌโขs tips combined with the employerรขโฌโขs direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.[/i] Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.[/quote][/quote]
Waitstaff EARNINGS always equal or exceed minimum wage, which is not the same as getting paid minimum wage.
Say you work 5 days, 40 hours a week, get $40 in tips per day.
According to the math above, you get 40 * $2.13 = $85.20. Tips = 5 * $40 = $200. Total earnings = $285.20. Over 2/3rds of your earnings are in tips, and it "subsidizes" the minimum wage.
Minimum Wage as of July 1 is $6.55. 40 hours * $6.55 = $262 Tips = 5 * $40 = $200. Total earnings = $462. Less than half of your earnings are in tips.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:48 am
softy515
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Post subject:ย
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So possibly she did love your massage. But not enough to tip extra. Like I said, it sounds like the price of massage is on the higher end, to her that price is enough to pay.
Essentially, I would suggest that the front desk keep that info to themselves. There is nothing to be gained by you knowing that this women didn't want to tip you.
You have valid points. But that one sentence was a bit of a turn off.
As for me telling the last MT that her massage was mediocre, no, I don't see that telling her that would be helpful. There are probably tons of others who just love her massage. MAny love my bodywork but not all. We are all different. Had she done something harmful, that would be another thing. Me telling her that would only have ruined her day.
So possibly she did love your massage. But not enough to tip extra. Like I said, it sounds like the price of massage is on the higher end, to her that price is enough to pay.
Essentially, I would suggest that the front desk keep that info to themselves. There is nothing to be gained by you knowing that this women didn't want to tip you.
You have valid points. But that one sentence was a bit of a turn off.
As for me telling the last MT that her massage was mediocre, no, I don't see that telling her that would be helpful. There are probably tons of others who just love her massage. MAny love my bodywork but not all. We are all different. Had she done something harmful, that would be another thing. Me telling her that would only have ruined her day.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:16 am
BlackSwanMassage
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softy515 wrote:Here is an idea, Black Swan. The women wasn't cheap. All that stuff about feeling good was just to say something..... do we honestly think that everyone who says "I feel GREAT" "That was the best massage ever!" ECT. means it???? Seriously, how many clients will be able to look a MT in the eye and say, your massage wasn't good. I don't mean to be mean, just realistic. And I know this to be fact because I just got a massage that I didn't like but it wasn't as though I could tell her that. Not to mention that the lady already paid an arm and a leg for a massage. In her mind, that was enough and whether she actually paid or not, isn't really our concern, is it? It was a gift and she wanted to get her money's worth out of it, who can blame her?How many clients who are disappointed spend the whole massage commenting on different techniques, asking if you'll be there next year when they come back into town, and exclaiming when long-tightened muscles release? No one's that good an actor, nor would they have the motivation to do so.You're assuming I haven't done this long enough to know the difference between "It was good," (translation: I've had better) and "Oh, my God!" (translation: that was awesome!) If you've been in this line of work for any length of time and you still can't read people's reactons, there's something wrong.Yes, I am always honest with my therapist. If there were things they didn't do, then I let them know. How else are they supposed to get any better in their career? You mean you actually LIE to a fellow therapist about their massage? Why? To spare their feelings? To keep them from improving? What POSSIBLE motivation could you have for that?And finally, for the last time, SHE didn't pay a dime for that massage, or her hair and nail session, so I'd say she got HIS money out of it, for sure. Where would have been the loss?Quote:I don't reduce my fee because I charge what I need to charge in order to give of myself and leave my family for that hour and devote ALL my energy to my client. However - having said that - I did offer her a package deal which she refused. She knows my services are well worth every penny I charge and would not pay less than my stated fee. It is probably MUCH less than what you make per hour but it is sufficient for me in my small rural town. So, the money is a factor for you, too. Not a surprise, we all have to make a living. Just so you know, I realize that some of you on here might see me as money-grubbing, so let me just clarify my position. Once a month, I donate my time to a charity of some form--whether it's immediate, as in the Alzheimer's class I mentioned earlier, or delayed, as in the case of the gift certificates I gave to a nursing home to give to some of their nursing staff for a holiday. It's not about money for me, it's principle.The last sentence, despite myself, made me chuckle. I guess you must have an image of SOUTH Florida MT's in your mind with this one. Yeah, not so much here. Cost of housing is about on par with Tampa, but unfortunately, standards of compensation are more on par with Bumblehump, Mississippi. This is a place that considers $10 "competitive wages".Quote:If you HAVE to have a tip in order to not feel resentful than you need to re-evaluate your compensation and/or situation. Period. If you have such obvious resentment towards anybody who doesn't leave a tip than NO - you do NOT consider them gifts. You consider them your "just due" and something you have a "right" to. Or else you wouldn't feel resentful not recieving it. You're either being intentionally obnoxious, or you're not reading my posts.Quote:That having been said, there are plenty of days (today for example), that I don't even ask the front desk about tip totals. I'm offering my two cents on this based upon EM's original request for feedback.It's NOT a requirement for me. I didn't even ask about this woman. The front desk volunteered the information because they thought it was so extraordinarily rude (yeah, and they weren't even the ones giving the service. Go figure!)Quote:But see, this is the thing right here. Look at how many judgments and assumptions you have made about this one client because she used up her GC on lotions instead of leaving it as a gratuity. How do you KNOW that she didn't leave it because she's selfish or a b!tch? How do you KNOW? You decide this very negative, malignant picture of her character based upon whether she left you the tip on the balance of her GC? We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting. Tell me you haven't adjusted your tip due to a server who can't seem to get it together and screws up your order two or three times. Tell me you don't think that our clients judge our work when we're not at the top of our game. Sure, there maybe outside factors involved. That cashier might have a mom who's dying. The server might be in the middle of a huge breakup with her boyfriend. The massage therapist might have a sick kid. But does any of that really register in our minds, if we're honest with ourselves? Not usually. Instead, we're pi$$ed because we have to wait in line longer due to an incompetent employee, we've had to endure two or three waits for our food while our friends have already eaten theirs, and we've paid out good money for a halfway decent massage.If you've endured sub-standard service without pre-judging--everytime--then I'll bow to your superior sensitivity and apologize profusely. But I'm banking that's just not the case.So, how about we leave my assumptions in the balance column of just being human, and move on to other aspects of the argument?Quote:I understand what you are saying about tips and appreciation, I've paid my dues as waitstaff, and there were nights when a guest's generosity or "lack" could make or break my night... and I'm not just talking about steak or ramen. Even though I was probably the most pragmatic server in our group (iow, LEAST bothered by the ups and downs of meal gratuities, figuring it all balanced out,) there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.And can you honestly tell me it didn't make you question your performance?Quote:Are tips always expected? Are there circumstances where it is acceptable to receive a much smaller tip, or no tip at all? If so, who determines those circumstances? Would you have felt differently about this woman (would she be less of a selfish stingy b!itch) if her Gift Certificate had just covered the cost of the massage, and she had left you a $5 bill in the tip envelope? First question: No, they're not. I'm very pleased to receive them, but I can understand not receiving them, as well.Second question: Yes, and it depends on the means of the individual in question. I operate on the "blue plate" principle: when you're poor, even the blue plate special costs too much. To understand, you really have to see the part of the country where I live. You've got your people who come in once in a great while, and it's a real treat for them to get a massage. They're really appreciative. They can't afford much more than maybe $5 on a tip, but there's heartfelt gratitude in that $5. Then you have the other end of the spectrum (and I've spent time in other places without ever seeing quite the disparity between these two groups that I do here in my hometown) who come in once a week for their styling/mani-pedi/massage, tip you $5, and barely look up from their cell phone conversation about which beachside restaurant to eat at that night after they come in from their yacht. Suddenly, that $5 has lost almost all of its meaning. Get the picture?Third question: In connection with question 2's answer, the answer is yes, absolutely, because that meant she would have had to dig that money out of her own purse to provide me with a tip, and presumably that would have meant that she enjoyed it so much that she was willing to part with her own cash to show that appreciation.It wasn't the tip amount that bothered me. It was her reluctance to give it. If I'd been up there, I probably would have told her not to worry about it, just because it seemed to burden her so much.Quote:I have some other ideas on the "giving your all" subject, but they're still percolating into some type of coherency.
I look forward to it.
[quote="softy515"]Here is an idea, Black Swan. The women wasn't cheap. All that stuff about feeling good was just to say something..... do we honestly think that everyone who says "I feel GREAT" "That was the best massage ever!" ECT. means it???? Seriously, how many clients will be able to look a MT in the eye and say, your massage wasn't good. I don't mean to be mean, just realistic. And I know this to be fact because I just got a massage that I didn't like but it wasn't as though I could tell her that. Not to mention that the lady already paid an arm and a leg for a massage. In her mind, that was enough and whether she actually paid or not, isn't really our concern, is it? It was a gift and she wanted to get her money's worth out of it, who can blame her?[/quote]How many clients who are disappointed spend the whole massage commenting on different techniques, asking if you'll be there next year when they come back into town, and exclaiming when long-tightened muscles release? No one's that good an actor, nor would they have the motivation to do so.You're assuming I haven't done this long enough to know the difference between "It was good," (translation: I've had better) and "Oh, my God!" (translation: that was awesome!) If you've been in this line of work for any length of time and you still can't read people's reactons, there's something wrong.Yes, I am always honest with my therapist. If there were things they didn't do, then I let them know. How else are they supposed to get any better in their career? You mean you actually LIE to a fellow therapist about their massage? Why? To spare their feelings? To keep them from improving? What POSSIBLE motivation could you have for that?And finally, for the last time, SHE didn't pay a dime for that massage, or her hair and nail session, so I'd say she got HIS money out of it, for sure. Where would have been the loss?[quote]I don't reduce my fee because I charge what I need to charge in order to give of myself and leave my family for that hour and devote ALL my energy to my client. However - having said that - I did offer her a package deal which she refused. She knows my services are well worth every penny I charge and would not pay less than my stated fee. It is probably MUCH less than what you make per hour but it is sufficient for me in my small rural town. [/quote]So, the money is a factor for you, too. Not a surprise, we all have to make a living. Just so you know, I realize that some of you on here might see me as money-grubbing, so let me just clarify my position. Once a month, I donate my time to a charity of some form--whether it's immediate, as in the Alzheimer's class I mentioned earlier, or delayed, as in the case of the gift certificates I gave to a nursing home to give to some of their nursing staff for a holiday. It's not about money for me, it's principle.The last sentence, despite myself, made me chuckle. I guess you must have an image of SOUTH Florida MT's in your mind with this one. Yeah, not so much here. Cost of housing is about on par with Tampa, but unfortunately, standards of compensation are more on par with Bumblehump, Mississippi. This is a place that considers $10 "competitive wages".[quote]If you HAVE to have a tip in order to not feel resentful than you need to re-evaluate your compensation and/or situation. Period. If you have such obvious resentment towards anybody who doesn't leave a tip than NO - you do NOT consider them gifts. You consider them your "just due" and something you have a "right" to. Or else you wouldn't feel resentful not recieving it. [/quote]You're either being intentionally obnoxious, or you're not reading my posts.[quote]That having been said, there are plenty of days (today for example), that I don't even ask the front desk about tip totals. I'm offering my two cents on this based upon EM's original request for feedback.[/quote]It's NOT a requirement for me. I didn't even ask about this woman. The front desk volunteered the information because they thought it was so extraordinarily rude (yeah, and they weren't even the ones giving the service. Go figure!)[quote]But see, this is the thing right here. Look at how many judgments and assumptions you have made about this one client because she used up her GC on lotions instead of leaving it as a gratuity. How do you KNOW that she didn't leave it because she's selfish or a b!tch? How do you KNOW? You decide this very negative, malignant picture of her character based upon whether she left you the tip on the balance of her GC? [/quote]We're human. Tell me you're not guilty of it. Tell me with a straight face you haven't thought less of a cashier who screwed up at the register with a long line of people waiting. Tell me you haven't adjusted your tip due to a server who can't seem to get it together and screws up your order two or three times. Tell me you don't think that our clients judge our work when we're not at the top of our game. Sure, there maybe outside factors involved. That cashier might have a mom who's dying. The server might be in the middle of a huge breakup with her boyfriend. The massage therapist might have a sick kid. But does any of that really register in our minds, if we're honest with ourselves? Not usually. Instead, we're pi$$ed because we have to wait in line longer due to an incompetent employee, we've had to endure two or three waits for our food while our friends have already eaten theirs, and we've paid out good money for a halfway decent massage.If you've endured sub-standard service without pre-judging--everytime--then I'll bow to your superior sensitivity and apologize profusely. But I'm banking that's just not the case.So, how about we leave my assumptions in the balance column of just being human, and move on to other aspects of the argument?[quote]I understand what you are saying about tips and appreciation, I've paid my dues as waitstaff, and there were nights when a guest's generosity or "lack" could make or break my night... and I'm not just talking about steak or ramen. Even though I was probably the most pragmatic server in our group (iow, LEAST bothered by the ups and downs of meal gratuities, figuring it all balanced out,) there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.[/quote]And can you honestly tell me it didn't make you question your performance?[quote]Are tips always expected? Are there circumstances where it is acceptable to receive a much smaller tip, or no tip at all? If so, who determines those circumstances? Would you have felt differently about this woman (would she be less of a selfish stingy b!itch) if her Gift Certificate had just covered the cost of the massage, and she had left you a $5 bill in the tip envelope? [/quote]First question: No, they're not. I'm very pleased to receive them, but I can understand not receiving them, as well.Second question: Yes, and it depends on the means of the individual in question. I operate on the "blue plate" principle: when you're poor, even the blue plate special costs too much. To understand, you really have to see the part of the country where I live. You've got your people who come in once in a great while, and it's a real treat for them to get a massage. They're really appreciative. They can't afford much more than maybe $5 on a tip, but there's heartfelt gratitude in that $5. Then you have the other end of the spectrum (and I've spent time in other places without ever seeing quite the disparity between these two groups that I do here in my hometown) who come in once a week for their styling/mani-pedi/massage, tip you $5, and barely look up from their cell phone conversation about which beachside restaurant to eat at that night after they come in from their yacht. Suddenly, that $5 has lost almost all of its meaning. Get the picture?Third question: In connection with question 2's answer, the answer is yes, absolutely, because that meant she would have had to dig that money out of her own purse to provide me with a tip, and presumably that would have meant that she enjoyed it so much that she was willing to part with her own cash to show that appreciation.It wasn't the tip amount that bothered me. It was her reluctance to give it. If I'd been up there, I probably would have told her not to worry about it, just because it seemed to burden her so much.[quote]I have some other ideas on the "giving your all" subject, but they're still percolating into some type of coherency.[/quote]
I look forward to it. :D
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:05 am
Breathe
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BlackSwanMassage wrote:Here's the thing, though: the client in question is a classic example of "I know I can tip, but I don't feel like it." She enjoyed the massage, her shoulder felt better than it had in years, and it didn't even cost her anything to leave the bloody tip, yet she couldn't bear the idea of giving me that gratuity. To me, that's not a show of apathy or enthusiasm for my work, in either direction. It's a show of "ME FIRST". "Sure, I'll leave a little bit, but I'm gonna get something else for MYSELF first."
But see, this is the thing right here. Look at how many judgments and assumptions you have made about this one client because she used up her GC on lotions instead of leaving it as a gratuity. How do you KNOW that she didn't leave it because she's selfish or a b!tch? How do you KNOW? You decide this very negative, malignant picture of her character based upon whether she left you the tip on the balance of her GC?
I understand what you are saying about tips and appreciation, I've paid my dues as waitstaff, and there were nights when a guest's generosity or "lack" could make or break my night... and I'm not just talking about steak or ramen. Even though I was probably the most pragmatic server in our group (iow, LEAST bothered by the ups and downs of meal gratuities, figuring it all balanced out,) there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.
Here's the measure of attachment:
Are tips always expected? Are there circumstances where it is acceptable to receive a much smaller tip, or no tip at all? If so, who determines those circumstances? Would you have felt differently about this woman (would she be less of a selfish stingy b!itch) if her Gift Certificate had just covered the cost of the massage, and she had left you a $5 bill in the tip envelope?
I have some other ideas on the "giving your all" subject, but they're still percolating into some type of coherency.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"]Here's the thing, though: the client in question is a classic example of "I know I can tip, but I don't feel like it." She enjoyed the massage, her shoulder felt better than it had in years, and it didn't even cost her anything to leave the bloody tip, yet she couldn't bear the idea of giving me that gratuity. To me, that's not a show of apathy or enthusiasm for my work, in either direction. It's a show of "ME FIRST". "Sure, I'll leave a little bit, but I'm gonna get something else for MYSELF first."[/quote]
But see, this is the thing right here. Look at how many judgments and assumptions you have made about this one client because she used up her GC on lotions instead of leaving it as a gratuity. How do you KNOW that she didn't leave it because she's selfish or a b!tch? How do you KNOW? You decide this very negative, malignant picture of her character based upon whether she left you the tip on the balance of her GC?
I understand what you are saying about tips and appreciation, I've paid my dues as waitstaff, and there were nights when a guest's generosity or "lack" could make or break my night... and I'm not just talking about steak or ramen. Even though I was probably the most pragmatic server in our group (iow, LEAST bothered by the ups and downs of meal gratuities, figuring it all balanced out,) there really was no honest way to detach myself emotionally from the real impact of seeing 5% laid down on a $100 tab.
Here's the measure of attachment:
Are tips always expected? Are there circumstances where it is acceptable to receive a much smaller tip, or no tip at all? If so, who determines those circumstances? Would you have felt differently about this woman (would she be less of a selfish stingy b!itch) if her Gift Certificate had just covered the cost of the massage, and she had left you a $5 bill in the tip envelope?
I have some other ideas on the "giving your all" subject, but they're still percolating into some type of coherency.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:49 pm
AngEngland
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EgoMagickian wrote:There isn't really another place I'd rather work at this point in my career. It's got a lot of good things going on for it, but there are a few things that they just don't seem to get... that other places have down pat.
I would print out the script that Black Swan shared and show it to your spa management. If they adopted it that would certianly be a lot less tacky than envelopes and would flow naturally into the checking out process.
[quote="EgoMagickian"]There isn't really another place I'd rather work at this point in my career. It's got a lot of good things going on for it, but there are a few things that they just don't seem to get... that other places have down pat. [/quote]
I would print out the script that Black Swan shared and show it to your spa management. If they adopted it that would certianly be a lot less tacky than envelopes and would flow naturally into the checking out process.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:48 pm
AngEngland
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BlackSwanMassage wrote: Oh, and BTW, if you're so grateful toward this woman for the tip she gave you, and you know how much she seems to need this massage she gets from you...how about reducing your fee?
I just now noticed this comment.
I don't reduce my fee because I charge what I need to charge in order to give of myself and leave my family for that hour and devote ALL my energy to my client. However - having said that - I did offer her a package deal which she refused. She knows my services are well worth every penny I charge and would not pay less than my stated fee. It is probably MUCH less than what you make per hour but it is sufficient for me in my small rural town.
If you HAVE to have a tip in order to not feel resentful than you need to re-evaluate your compensation and/or situation. Period. If you have such obvious resentment towards anybody who doesn't leave a tip than NO - you do NOT consider them gifts. You consider them your "just due" and something you have a "right" to. Or else you wouldn't feel resentful not recieving it.
I was grateful for her tip because it showed thoughfulness and caring. And it was UNEXPECTED. The true hallmark of a thoughtful gift. If it is an obligation it is not a gift.
Angela <
P.S. I wanted to add - I really did agree with everything else in your post. I just don't think it's fair to label every non-tipping client as cheap bas---ds or b---es. It is a horribly unfair generalization based on two anecdotal examples. That's all I was trying to say.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"] Oh, and BTW, if you're so grateful toward this woman for the tip she gave you, and you know how much she seems to need this massage she gets from you...how about reducing your fee?[/quote]
I just now noticed this comment.
I don't reduce my fee because I charge what I need to charge in order to give of myself and leave my family for that hour and devote ALL my energy to my client. However - having said that - I did offer her a package deal which she refused. She knows my services are well worth every penny I charge and would not pay less than my stated fee. It is probably MUCH less than what you make per hour but it is sufficient for me in my small rural town.
If you HAVE to have a tip in order to not feel resentful than you need to re-evaluate your compensation and/or situation. Period. If you have such obvious resentment towards anybody who doesn't leave a tip than NO - you do NOT consider them gifts. You consider them your "just due" and something you have a "right" to. Or else you wouldn't feel resentful not recieving it.
I was grateful for her tip because it showed thoughfulness and caring. And it was UNEXPECTED. The true hallmark of a thoughtful gift. If it is an obligation it is not a gift.
Angela <
P.S. I wanted to add - I really did agree with everything else in your post. I just don't think it's fair to label every non-tipping client as cheap bas---ds or b---es. It is a horribly unfair generalization based on two anecdotal examples. That's all I was trying to say.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:46 pm
EgoMagickian
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In my private practice, tips are a gift and I do not ask for them in any way. This is stated clearly in the FAQ on my website.
At the spa, tips are part of the compensation model and are customary.
I have a strange amount of loyalty to this place that I never expected, but this is one of several issues that, if not addressed satisfactorily, will probably lead to me ending my contract there.
So tips do help the business. They help attract and retain good therapists.
There isn't really another place I'd rather work at this point in my career. It's got a lot of good things going on for it, but there are a few things that they just don't seem to get... that other places have down pat.
This other place I worked--that was sooo dysfunctional in many ways--had tips down. I never once didn't get a tip, usually generously sized. I even got a (small) tip from the very disappointed British tourist who was looking for services I don't provide ;-)
As I look at what the differences between these two places might be, I've identified two important ones so far. And the one this thread is focused on is that the Good Tips Spa had front desk staff that asked every time.
Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. I'm still interested in hearing more experiences/perspectives related to the topic.
In my private practice, tips are a gift and I do not ask for them in any way. This is stated clearly in the FAQ on my website.
At the spa, tips are part of the compensation model and are customary.
I have a strange amount of loyalty to this place that I never expected, but this is one of several issues that, if not addressed satisfactorily, will probably lead to me ending my contract there.
So tips do help the business. They help attract and retain good therapists.
There isn't really another place I'd rather work at this point in my career. It's got a lot of good things going on for it, but there are a few things that they just don't seem to get... that other places have down pat.
This other place I worked--that was sooo dysfunctional in many ways--had tips [i]down[/i]. I never once didn't get a tip, usually generously sized. I even got a (small) tip from the very disappointed British tourist who was looking for services I don't provide ;-)
As I look at what the differences between these two places might be, I've identified two important ones so far. And the one this thread is focused on is that the Good Tips Spa had front desk staff that asked every time.
Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. I'm still interested in hearing more experiences/perspectives related to the topic.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:47 pm
softy515
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Here is an idea, Black Swan. The women wasn't cheap. All that stuff about feeling good was just to say something..... do we honestly think that everyone who says "I feel GREAT" "That was the best massage ever!" ECT. means it???? Seriously, how many clients will be able to look a MT in the eye and say, your massage wasn't good.
I don't mean to be mean, just realistic.
And I know this to be fact because I just got a massage that I didn't like but it wasn't as though I could tell her that.
Not to mention that the lady already paid an arm and a leg for a massage. In her mind, that was enough and whether she actually paid or not, isn't really our concern, is it? It was a gift and she wanted to get her money's worth out of it, who can blame her?
Here is an idea, Black Swan. The women wasn't cheap. All that stuff about feeling good was just to say something..... do we honestly think that everyone who says "I feel GREAT" "That was the best massage ever!" ECT. means it???? Seriously, how many clients will be able to look a MT in the eye and say, your massage wasn't good.
I don't mean to be mean, just realistic.
And I know this to be fact because I just got a massage that I didn't like but it wasn't as though I could tell her that.
Not to mention that the lady already paid an arm and a leg for a massage. In her mind, that was enough and whether she actually paid or not, isn't really our concern, is it? It was a gift and she wanted to get her money's worth out of it, who can blame her?
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:14 pm
BlackSwanMassage
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Rose of Sharon wrote:shivashiva wrote:BlackSwanMassage wrote: Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.I've been known to sneak a make-up tip under my plate for the server when dining with really bad tippers! That drives me nuts!!! If I can't afford dinner out *and* a tip, then I stay home and cook.
Hell with that, Sharon. If the person I'm out with doesn't tip properly, I leave the make-up tip out where they can see it. I even make a point of showing it to them. If they ain't got no home trainin', I consider it my duty to educate them myself.
As far as your last sentence, there's probably a few MT's out there who feel the same way about what they do. I had a massage appointment at my alma mater's clinic once that I actually canceled (knowing full well that they'd re-book inside of an hour, because of their reputation) when I realized that I would be able to pay the $25, but didn't have enough money for a tip for the therapist. (Yes, I know the students can't take the tips, but at our school, the money was kept for us to be used to order pizza, etc. for our grad. party.)
So I don't just talk the talk as a therapist, I also walk the walk as a client. Maybe that's why I feel the way I do about it.
[quote="Rose of Sharon"][quote="shivashiva"][quote="BlackSwanMassage"] Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. [/quote]You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.[/quote]I've been known to sneak a make-up tip under my plate for the server when dining with really bad tippers! That drives me nuts!!! If I can't afford dinner out *and* a tip, then I stay home and cook.[/quote]
Hell with that, Sharon. If the person I'm out with doesn't tip properly, I leave the make-up tip out where they can see it. I even make a point of showing it to them. If they ain't got no home trainin', I consider it my duty to educate them myself.
As far as your last sentence, there's probably a few MT's out there who feel the same way about what they do. I had a massage appointment at my alma mater's clinic once that I actually canceled (knowing full well that they'd re-book inside of an hour, because of their reputation) when I realized that I would be able to pay the $25, but didn't have enough money for a tip for the therapist. (Yes, I know the students can't take the tips, but at our school, the money was kept for us to be used to order pizza, etc. for our grad. party.)
So I don't just talk the talk as a therapist, I also walk the walk as a client. Maybe that's why I feel the way I do about it.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:48 pm
Rose of Sharon
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shivashiva wrote:BlackSwanMassage wrote: Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.
I've been known to sneak a make-up tip under my plate for the server when dining with really bad tippers! That drives me nuts!!! If I can't afford dinner out *and* a tip, then I stay home and cook.
[quote="shivashiva"][quote="BlackSwanMassage"] Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. [/quote]You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.[/quote]
I've been known to sneak a make-up tip under my plate for the server when dining with really bad tippers! That drives me nuts!!! If I can't afford dinner out *and* a tip, then I stay home and cook.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:31 pm
shivashiva
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BlackSwanMassage wrote: Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage.
You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.
Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"] Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. [/quote]
You're right! Your wording precluded what I said and I didn't notice. But rare is it that a server's tips don't make up that difference, even if they are working in midwest farmtown illinois. (We had a $30 dinner, 4 people and the "head of the table" tipped $1 and change. I was AGAST but afraid to say anything. Inlaws, lol) Actually, maybe in that case the restaurant might have to make up for it.
Thanks for being clear BlackSwan.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:25 pm
BlackSwanMassage
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We're in agreement on the subject of leaving tips aside and just doing the job, but you're wrong about the servers, I'm afraid. They make minimum wage--always.
From the DOL website:
Quote:A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employeeรขโฌโขs tips combined with the employerรขโฌโขs direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
We're in agreement on the subject of leaving tips aside and just doing the job, but you're wrong about the servers, I'm afraid. They make minimum wage--always.
From the DOL website:
[quote]A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. [i]If the employeeรขโฌโขs tips combined with the employerรขโฌโขs direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.[/i] Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.[/quote]
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:17 pm
shivashiva
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BlackSwanMassage wrote: Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage.
This is not true in many states. In Utah, New Mexico and other states servers get paid around $2/hr. Their legal minimum wage is different, based on the fact that they get tips.
The fact is that being pissed off about whether someone leaves you a tip or not is your business. I decided early on in my career as a waitress that being pissed off about people not leaving me tips just made me bitter and do a worse job. That's just me. As soon as I let it go, I was able to serve everyone, and now every client with a smile and be happy about myself and my job whether they tip me or not. If they decide not to tip, that's their business. I do my best in that moment and I know that whether they tip or not has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with them.
So for me, worrying the tipping habits of clients doesn't serve me. I've gotten two dollar tips (or $0) from massages that I thought I gave 150%. I say thank you internally, pocket the money and buy some mints. I needed those mints.
[quote="BlackSwanMassage"] Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. [/quote]
This is not true in many states. In Utah, New Mexico and other states servers get paid around $2/hr. Their legal minimum wage is different, based on the fact that they get tips.
The fact is that being pissed off about whether someone leaves you a tip or not is your business. I decided early on in my career as a waitress that being pissed off about people not leaving me tips just made me bitter and do a worse job. That's just me. As soon as I let it go, I was able to serve everyone, and now every client with a smile and be happy about myself and my job whether they tip me or not. If they decide not to tip, that's their business. I do my best in that moment and I know that whether they tip or not has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with them.
So for me, worrying the tipping habits of clients doesn't serve [i]me[/i]. I've gotten two dollar tips (or $0) from massages that I thought I gave 150%. I say thank you internally, pocket the money and buy some mints. I needed those mints.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:06 pm
BlackSwanMassage
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Well, Breathe, I can tell you this much: tips, for me, are not quite crucial to my well-being, but they often make the difference between ramen noodles and steak in a given week.
That having been said, there are plenty of days (today for example), that I don't even ask the front desk about tip totals. I'm offering my two cents on this based upon EM's original request for feedback.
Here's the thing, though: the client in question is a classic example of "I know I can tip, but I don't feel like it." She enjoyed the massage, her shoulder felt better than it had in years, and it didn't even cost her anything to leave the bloody tip, yet she couldn't bear the idea of giving me that gratuity. To me, that's not a show of apathy or enthusiasm for my work, in either direction. It's a show of "ME FIRST". "Sure, I'll leave a little bit, but I'm gonna get something else for MYSELF first."
You don't have to tip anyone. Our stylists and nail techs get paid commission. Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. Cab drivers get a perceneforum.xxxe of their fares. All of us are getting compensated for the work that we do. What the heck, let's all just stop tipping.
Unless, of course, you're looking to show appreciation to your service provider, be it a cabbie, waiter, or even MT, for a job well done.
Sure, there are a million extenuating circumstances for not tipping someone who's gone out of their way to serve you. You don't have the money, you didn't know they should be tipped, or you just don't feel like it. I get it. It won't change the level of service I provide.
I used to work in the restaurant biz (one of my many jobs--my resume comes in paeforum.xxxack or hardcover) as a waiter. One of my coworkers came back to the prep area one evening complaining about the customer who ordered the most expensive meal we served and tipping him $3. When I sympathized with him, he shrugged it off and said, "That's all right. Next time I'll just spit in his food." Check out some of the waiter rant blogs on the Internet if you doubt that story.
I never did anything like that then, and I don't alter my professionalism now based upon compensation for my work. But I'm not going to lie to you and tell me that it doesn't get to me--in much the same way that a person coming in, seeing me, and asking for a female gets to me, but that's another thread.
I'll keep right on accepting tips from those who offer, I'll keep right on giving my best to every person who comes in, whether they tip or not, and I'll keep right on expressing my opinions of the non-tippers outside of work--and if that grieves people...well, our country is a wonderful place to exercise freedom of opinion, isn't it?
Well, Breathe, I can tell you this much: tips, for me, are not quite crucial to my well-being, but they often make the difference between ramen noodles and steak in a given week.
That having been said, there are plenty of days (today for example), that I don't even ask the front desk about tip totals. I'm offering my two cents on this based upon EM's original request for feedback.
Here's the thing, though: the client in question is a classic example of "I know I can tip, but I don't feel like it." She enjoyed the massage, her shoulder felt better than it had in years, and it didn't even cost her anything to leave the bloody tip, yet she couldn't bear the idea of giving me that gratuity. To me, that's not a show of apathy or enthusiasm for my work, in either direction. It's a show of "ME FIRST". "Sure, I'll leave a little bit, but I'm gonna get something else for MYSELF first."
You don't have to tip anyone. Our stylists and nail techs get paid commission. Servers in restaurants are guaranteed at least minimum wage. Cab drivers get a perceneforum.xxxe of their fares. All of us are getting compensated for the work that we do. What the heck, let's all just stop tipping.
Unless, of course, you're looking to show appreciation to your service provider, be it a cabbie, waiter, or even MT, for a job well done.
Sure, there are a million extenuating circumstances for not tipping someone who's gone out of their way to serve you. You don't have the money, you didn't know they should be tipped, or you just don't feel like it. I get it. It won't change the level of service I provide.
I used to work in the restaurant biz (one of my many jobs--my resume comes in paeforum.xxxack or hardcover) as a waiter. One of my coworkers came back to the prep area one evening complaining about the customer who ordered the most expensive meal we served and tipping him $3. When I sympathized with him, he shrugged it off and said, "That's all right. Next time I'll just spit in his food." Check out some of the waiter rant blogs on the Internet if you doubt that story.
I never did anything like that then, and I don't alter my professionalism now based upon compensation for my work. But I'm not going to lie to you and tell me that it doesn't get to me--in much the same way that a person coming in, seeing me, and asking for a female gets to me, but that's another thread.
I'll keep right on accepting tips from those who offer, I'll keep right on giving my best to every person who comes in, whether they tip or not, and I'll keep right on expressing my opinions of the non-tippers outside of work--and if that grieves people...well, our country is a wonderful place to exercise freedom of opinion, isn't it?
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:48 pm
Breathe
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Pete wrote:BlackSwanMassage wrote:Now contrast that with the woman who gets up off my table with a shoulder that, by her own admission, feels better than it has in ten years. put the remaining $5.16 toward a tip for me. $5.16. On a $126 therapeutic massage......It wasn't that she didn't want to spend the money--it was that she didn't want to give it to me for the time and effort I put into fixing her structural issues. Compare that with the woman who got a 30 minute relaxation massage from me today and left me a $10 tip--almost 25% gratuity, compared with about 4.5% from the first woman--and I only saw her for 30 minutes!BlackSwan, sounds to me as if you're making the point in my previous post. It's very possible the "B-Witch" in the first scenario viewed you as a health care provider and the second one viewed you as a service provider.
I agree with Pete's point 100%, and this is exactly the reason that I have chosen not to accept tips from anyone for massage therapy. It is too easy to get caught up in the idea of using the tip as a measure of the client's appreciation for the service, or how much they value you, or as an indication of their character. Not that every MT does it, or even that many do, but it is a complaint that I hear often.
To which I respond, "how do you know what the motivation was for leaving/not leaving a big tip, unless they come right out and say so?"
[quote="Pete"][quote="BlackSwanMassage"]Now contrast that with the woman who gets up off my table with a shoulder that, by her own admission, feels better than it has in ten years. put the remaining $5.16 toward a tip for me. $5.16. On a $126 therapeutic massage......It wasn't that she didn't want to spend the money--it was that she didn't want to give it to me for the time and effort I put into fixing her structural issues. Compare that with the woman who got a 30 minute relaxation massage from me today and left me a $10 tip--almost 25% gratuity, compared with about 4.5% from the first woman--and I only saw her for 30 minutes![/quote]BlackSwan, sounds to me as if you're making the point in my previous post. It's very possible the "B-Witch" in the first scenario viewed you as a health care provider and the second one viewed you as a service provider.[/quote]
I agree with Pete's point 100%, and this is exactly the reason that I have chosen not to accept tips from anyone for massage therapy. It is too easy to get caught up in the idea of using the tip as a measure of the client's appreciation for the service, or how much they value you, or as an indication of their character. Not that every MT does it, or even that many do, but it is a complaint that I hear often.
To which I respond, "how do you know what the motivation was for leaving/not leaving a big tip, unless they come right out and say so?"
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:04 pm
BlackSwanMassage
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Pete wrote:BlackSwanMassage wrote:Now contrast that with the woman who gets up off my table with a shoulder that, by her own admission, feels better than it has in ten years. put the remaining $5.16 toward a tip for me. $5.16. On a $126 therapeutic massage......It wasn't that she didn't want to spend the money--it was that she didn't want to give it to me for the time and effort I put into fixing her structural issues. Compare that with the woman who got a 30 minute relaxation massage from me today and left me a $10 tip--almost 25% gratuity, compared with about 4.5% from the first woman--and I only saw her for 30 minutes!BlackSwan, sounds to me as if you're making the point in my previous post. It's very possible the "B-Witch" in the first scenario viewed you as a health care provider and the second one viewed you as a service provider.
I understand what you're getting at, and when I worked for the chiro, I never expected a tip--the one or two that left me one quite frankly shocked me. But a spa is a different environment, and a good number of clients tend to view massage as a luxury/relaxation concept (at least in this area.) I was frequently treated as a luxury item in the chiro's office as well, with a lot of his patients deciding to "skip" treatment--a decision often encouraged by the chiro, who saw me as more of a do-boy than a supplemental provider. So...
These people can't have it both ways. Either we're a luxury, or we're health-care providers. But don't come in expecting basic relaxation, ignore my suggestions for improvement of your conditions, and then refuse to tip on the supposition that I'm a health care provider. That might fly with someone else, but not with me.
So, come and see me at a doctor's office, where I'm fully compensated and well-taken care of by the doc (in this town? Yeah, right!), and leave no tip, or come see me when you get your nails painted and your hair done, and tip me the same way you do everyone else there.
Side note: I went to the home of a physician's husband some time back, and worked on his for an hour. Neuromuscular work. All therapeutic. Health care.
When he got up and wrote me the check, he tipped me $30 above my regular fee. Yes, the spouse of a doctor tipped a health car provider.
Looks like there's no easy answer to this one, huh?
[quote="Pete"][quote="BlackSwanMassage"]Now contrast that with the woman who gets up off my table with a shoulder that, by her own admission, feels better than it has in ten years. put the remaining $5.16 toward a tip for me. $5.16. On a $126 therapeutic massage......It wasn't that she didn't want to spend the money--it was that she didn't want to give it to me for the time and effort I put into fixing her structural issues. Compare that with the woman who got a 30 minute relaxation massage from me today and left me a $10 tip--almost 25% gratuity, compared with about 4.5% from the first woman--and I only saw her for 30 minutes![/quote]BlackSwan, sounds to me as if you're making the point in my previous post. It's very possible the "B-Witch" in the first scenario viewed you as a health care provider and the second one viewed you as a service provider.
I understand what you're getting at, and when I worked for the chiro, I never expected a tip--the one or two that left me one quite frankly shocked me. But a spa is a different environment, and a good number of clients tend to view massage as a luxury/relaxation concept (at least in this area.) I was frequently treated as a luxury item in the chiro's office as well, with a lot of his patients deciding to "skip" treatment--a decision often encouraged by the chiro, who saw me as more of a do-boy than a supplemental provider. So...
These people can't have it both ways. Either we're a luxury, or we're health-care providers. But don't come in expecting basic relaxation, ignore my suggestions for improvement of your conditions, and then refuse to tip on the supposition that I'm a health care provider. That might fly with someone else, but not with me.
So, come and see me at a doctor's office, where I'm fully compensated and well-taken care of by the doc (in this town? Yeah, right!), and leave no tip, or come see me when you get your nails painted and your hair done, and tip me the same way you do everyone else there.
Side note: I went to the home of a physician's husband some time back, and worked on his for an hour. Neuromuscular work. All therapeutic. Health care.
When he got up and wrote me the check, he tipped me $30 above my regular fee. Yes, the spouse of a doctor tipped a health car provider.
Looks like there's no easy answer to this one, huh?
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:00 pm
squash_blsm
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Hmmm - have you considered something else?
I have heard story after story of "disappearing" tip envelopes - I would recheck your security...who has access to the "box". Or just rethink that whole system you have going on there.
I have been a MT for several years.
No one has ever "forgotten" to leave a tip.
Sometimes people who are using a GC would NOT leave a tip - but that was more in the past...not so much any more. And it was usually people who had never been to a spa before. Oh - I had one client's husband who didn't tip (client gave me a double tip next visit. LOL)
Hmmm - have you considered something else?
I have heard story after story of "disappearing" tip envelopes - I would recheck your security...who has access to the "box". Or just rethink that whole system you have going on there.
I have been a MT for several years.
No one has ever "forgotten" to leave a tip.
Sometimes people who are using a GC would NOT leave a tip - but that was more in the past...not so much any more. And it was usually people who had never been to a spa before. Oh - I had one client's husband who didn't tip (client gave me a double tip next visit. LOL)
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:44 pm
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Endless Joy Spa
(155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565
We have 8 hot brown girls today 
address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2
4376655510 
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at 4386 Sheppard Avenue east 
Tuesday, โฃ
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416 297-7488
JENNYโS SPA
5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST
ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4
NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY
647 348-2899
a clean, cozy, spa at 4578 Yonge Street, unit 100 
416 222-5554
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