What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

[johnny20ny]

Thank you to Jill and the wonderful people who answered my last post. Help I'm starting out. But there is a fly in the oitment I found out that here in Jersey you are not allowed to "rent" a room in a salon. Because massage is considered a different business. And salons can't sublet.So I guess I'm stuck with giving a perceneforum.xxxe.  At a previous spa I worked in I received 50% of the fee and all I had to do basically was to show up.  I'm going to this salon on Tuesday morning to look at the room. I'm bringing her a brochure of the services I can provide. (Spa Services if she has a sink in the room) Less Spa services like mud wraps if she doesn't)  I have the equipment and supplies(table, sheets, oils, etc) and the salon owner has a room.  I'm sure she wants it to be profitable for her also. Basically, she would be making the appointments and collecting her %.  She would have to add me to her advertising and I would need for her to take credit cards for me.  Would 20% or 25% be reasonable for the salon owner?  And should I throw in free massage for owner and other techs once a month? Its a small salon I'm guessing there are not more then 3 other techs.I'm sure she would charge me % for credit card charges besides the 20% or 25%.  What is a rate on credit card charges these day.  I hear they are high. Anyone know what they are?  Should I offer to go 1/2 on those charges? I don't want to be losing more then I'd be making on my service.I'm just starting out so I don't have a big cliental or the capital to rent and run an office.  (Wish I did )Thanks againLynda

 

[Jade ? MJ]

Lynda,Just a word of caution, although I want you to feel encouraged and go in there willing to hop onboard & add your expertise & services to that salon if all goes well. Don't offer free massages to the owner (with the exception of an interview massage if they ask for it... fair custom, by the way.... they need to know your draping techniques & the quality of your work). You will be paying the owner a handsome perceneforum.xxxe for the privelege of working very hard there. That is payment enough. They will be profiting from you, so giving your work away might eventually be a burden.I have always offered the girls I work with (including the owners) half price massages (and they fill my empty appointment slots with terrific regularity! plus they tip me fantasically!). That way they can afford massage & will hopefully tell e-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y who they work on to give you a try. It's up to you to get them to rebook, etc, from there. When I first get into a new situation (like at my current location), I also offer the stylists/techs/receptionists a free massage for 5 refferals. It's only a one time offer, but they all participate (the receptionists are particularly good at suggestive selling when they want the bodywork! they just say, "Judy, would you like to book one of great massage or spa services before your hair appointment & make a day of it?"). It costs them nothing but some encouragement & putting my flyers or biz cards within their clients' reach. After a few months, I end the offer. They can still have half price massages.As far as the credit & debit charges go, you'll have to do what the other practitioners & stylists do at the salon. I have worked places where we each had our own merchant accounts that got credited to our own bank accounts. Now I get a weekly 'merchant check' from the salon owner for all my previous week's charges. She only charges us 20 cents per transaction:  exactly what the merchant bank charges her. If you are being paid on a perceneforum.xxxe basis, you would get your perceneforum.xxxe, minus the standard charges. It is usually a contracted deal with the merchant company & not very negotiable.As far as negotiating your perceneforum.xxxe fees at the salon, have a strong idea about how to artfully negotiate. The salons have a standard commission rate, and don't usually have different policies with each employee. That would be a recipe for disaster and distrust amoung the employees. Try to think like the owner for a second & then try to sweeten the pot for yourself. For instance, if her offer/standard procedure is 50% commission, ask if she would consider ?% since you save her the cost of furnishing the studio (compared to hairstylists who only provide their own small tools, etc). Or negotiate free business cards & advertising, or something else of value to you & your future business.One thing that is a plus to being a commission person is that you are an employee with employee rights. Besides having labor laws on your side, that also means your taxes are partially paid by the employer, and you won't have the added burden of doing your own quarterly taxes, etc. Commission people generally have business flowing to them with little effort on their own if the salon is booming. They are, however, usually required to stay at the salon for walk-ins during their scheduled hours, even when their books are empty, and often participate in group responsibilities like laundry & cleaning, etc. Bottom line: I would see what she is offering, and have other scenarios fully explored beforehand. If it gets a little scary or hairy, you can always say, "how about I call you this evening after I consider the commission rates, benefits & responsibilities?" Expect and sign a work contract that explains all the details and all of the house rules, etc. Remember to do your homework: how many massages per week you expect to reasonably do at first & what cha-ching that translates to for you and the owner. Please post again after your meeting & let us know how you did.Jill/Sagetherapist

 

[Pompal 09.]

What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

Hi JillThanks again for your wonderful insight You gave me some valuable tips.I will let you know how it goes.Thanks so very much for your helpLynda

 

[Slobo]

I know this is a little late but here goes.  At the Salon I work with I trade massage time for time with the other workers like manicure, hair cut time and everything eles they offer.  The owners wanted free massage on demand.  Not ganna hapen and I told them so.  They tried to give me a speel about how that is how they would cover over head and advertizing.  I told them that is what the perceneforum.xxxe they keep from each massage is for.   Yet they percisted so I said when you can show me enough advertiving that you do for massage to cover my fee I'll give you a free massage.  They each had their massage in the room I use there to get a feel for it and have not yet shown me advertizing fees where my expertice is involved as more then the mention of the word massage.  They do get free work from all the other hairstylist etc. and they do take advaneforum.xxxe of them buy having them work for free on there whole family, children and spouse.  When they get their hair collored the hair stylist  pays for the color or anything else needed to do the job.

 

[Jim D]

What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

I am amazed at the owners attitude. I can't imagine working for people who expect it all. The spa I'm at, we all trade our work, time for time. The owner insists that she is one of us and will frequently book massages, knowing that I'll either request a facial, body treatment etc in the next week or she'll pay me for the service. You go girl for standing up for yourself! Can I borrow some of your guts? *grin*

 

[djeter_girl_2]

Many of the salon owners here expect free work.  they say that's part of their pay.

 

[kavekarst]

Hi,I had my salon for over a year now and decided to expand.  I have asked a fellow massage therapist whom I have no idea how good he is.  However, I can tell he is a decent  man and must have great massage skills and good biz etiques so I asked him to join me.  I offered 45% (mine) his 55% of my higher massage rate - $55/hr so he gets $30.25 per hour, I give him clients and set them up back to back on one day (1 day per week is all he has right now).As a salon owner I know I will have to  give discount coupons to get more clients for my business which means I will eat up those discounts such as $10 off leaving me $15 per massage he does or less.I feel that I am helping him build his clients as well as my salon.  I have my own massage clients and they are multplying fast right now I am comfortable I can give him at least 4 to 5 people a week.So to me, I feel 45% (to the owner) is fair if the owner gives you clients.  However, if you bring in your own then  20% to 30% of your fee or a maximum of $15 per hour should be fair.

 

[MDX 0601]

First I would ask other therapist in the area what % they are paying and what they get in return.  I live in a resort area and have 3 different arrangements for paying a percent.At a Tanning Salon where they offer tattoos, weight loss management and piercing, I provide myself and any massage oils and cd player.  The salon provides a room with table and sheets with 2 pillows, gift certificates and paved parking, they do laundry and take credit cards.   They are located in a stip mall on a 2 lane heavily traveled road.  They get 40%.  The client pays them and at the end of the day's appointments They pay me from the register.  1-hour appointment is $60.  I am the only therapist working here.At a Beauty Salon where they do nails, hair, facials, waxing, peels and makeup lessons, they provide the room, cd player and table also paved parking and they take credit cards.  I provide all other massage supplies including sheets unless the massage is for someone getting a facial, waxing or peel.  Then I use their sheets since they will need the salon sheets anyway and the client gets to relax on the table.  This is on the same road farther north out of town.  Well traveled road but not a lot of business for massage.  They get 30% because I provide the sheets and do laundry.  The other contractors there for hair and all else are getting paid 60% from the shop for compensation.  I usually collect from the shop owner at the end of the day as we live on the same street.  1-hour appointment is $60.  I am the only therapist working here.At a Resort  where I work all we do is massage.  There can be from 1 to 4 therapists working at a time.  They provide everything including massage oils and essential oils and take care of laundry.  They also accept room charges.  They pay 40% they charge $70 Swedish and $80 deep tissue or aroma.  The tips are between $10-$30 per massage.  From my personal experience about 80% of the clients here tip $20.  Because of the room charges we do not get paid at time of service but there is a pay schedule.   Example: work June 2-16 get paid June 23.I do not give free massages to shop owners after the initial this is my work massage.  The beauty salon said they wanted regular free massage at their request for both owners to cover advertising and operating cost.  I told them that was part of the 30% they keep from each massage.  I gave one free massage to each shop owner above because it is just good business for them to know what the clients are getting and I wanted the work.  I told the beauty salon owners when they show me money spent on massage in excess of what they are allready getting from me then we can talk.  As of yet they haven't been able to produce or even attempt to crunch number to see what they are paying to advertise massage.  They get free work for their families from all the girls working there and call it advertising.  If they get their hair colored the stylist has to pay for the color.  I don't like to play that way but that's just me.When I was in Massage School the instructor said not to pay the shop more than 20% if we had to supply a table and linins.Salon owners see massage as a cash cow.  No matter what they tell you they could't care less about your well being.  Find your massage limits and stick to them.  I am a small person 100 pounds on a good say and can only do 4 hours a day with out compromising my health.  Since I do good work the salons I work in want to keep me and are working with me.  I had to tell one business owner that if they scedualed more than I told them I could do for that day I would walk out and they would be left with angry customers.  If there was only one therapist available and in a massage they would contine to book massages untill the phone stopped ring ing this led to me and 3 others doing 7 in a row for 3 days.  I learned my limits and laid down the law.   I have had no further problems with any of the owners, once they figured out I was serious.Be confident and they won't mess with ya.Hope this helps,Julee

 

[Miles]

What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

Here's my experience with spa owners who see massage as a cash cow. I worked in a spa for almost two years. When I started out the spa had been in operation for about 7 years so they were well established in the community. Their massage services weren't doing very well though. I don't think they had a regular therapist before I started. So it was slow starting out. I had just a few appointments in a week. I was just out of school. It was the only spa in town. They took 50% of the cost of a massage ($40/hr--I got $20). The deal was that I would help answer the phone between appointments when I was waiting for my next client. The owner was doing laundry, providing everything--linens, oils, music, etc. I had to be there 15 minutes early so I could make sure the massage room was ready. The owner was there a lot and would bring her daughter in to help with the phone and gift certificate sales during the busy times. Before I finally left, the owner was taking more time off...leaving the phone unanswered and 15 to 20 messages on the machine every morning (sometimes a lot more). We were given the added responsibility of doing our laundry and we had to manage the desk and schedule times to be at the desk and not with clients. We didn't get paid to be at the desk--we were only getting 50% the cost of the services we provided. So basically we were expected to work the desk more frequently and not get paid. I was getting super frustrated because we (me and an esthetician who was providing other spa services) were running the business without much help from the owner. When the owner was there, she was scheduling too many appointments in one day. Four massages at 90 minutes each ...she said she'd get someone to help then didn't. Eight massages at an hour...told me to reschedule my regulars who were on the books for weeks in advance. I ended up being very unhappy with my circumstances and finally left. They now have two massage therapists sharing the time....one refuses to help with the phone so they are looking to replace her. They are having a difficult time finding people who plan on sticking around for long. I guess the moral of the story....spas can be a great place to start and some are probably wonderful places to say but you've got to set limits and be firm with them. If those limits aren't respected, get out and find somewhere else to work. Don't make yourself miserable and don't make people a number. Enjoy what you do and it will show. And watch how many therapists a spa will go through. That may be an indication of being overworked, underpaid and little respect.

 

[cta-music.com]

I work with a chiropractor, and I get 80% for patients I bring in and 75% for his patients that come to me.  Now if I bring a patient in and they use a credit card we go the 75% route to cover fees.  I provide sheets, cream, bed, and music.  All he provides is the room, power and receptionist.  He is extremly fair and I thing that is a great perceneforum.xxxe on my behalf.  As for working for free.....we trade 1 adjustment = 30 min. massage, 1 acupuncture session = 60 min. massage.  Just my input.....hope it helps.

 

[chris b]

I just want to add for the newer therapists that as you can see, the ranges vary widely.  There are so many factors that go into what therapists make from location to location.  Experience level, type of business, are there licensing laws in your state or not, metropolitan area vs rural, spa vs. doctor's office and the list goes on.  It's a personal decision and one you have to make on your own.  Will you make enough money based on the volume of the place is the bigger question to ask yourself?  Don't get into well, "he makes 75 percent and they only want to pay me 50%".  Someone is always going to have a better deal.  Evaluate it for you and your area and let your inner voice be the only judge.  Joe E.

 

[bob1]

Joe is right.  Simply put.....a happy therapist gives a better massage.  

 

[rickrudge]

Rent for space-tough situation?

I would like to explain what is happening to me right now.  I am interested in finding out what all of you think.I live in a small town.  There are many massage therapists along the main strip.  I happen to work in a salon that is located on the strip that offers the basics (hair, nails, pedicures, facials and massage).  Our hopes were to create the 1st spa in our city.  This is hard to do though, when the owner doesn't want to put in any effort. Originally, I was to pay the owner 30% of what I brought in.  I am starting to build a clientele and the salon has only been there about 1.5 years, so the process has been slow.  I provide my own oils, linens, table (which is used by the salon when doing facials).The owner does not have much of a business sense.  She is trying to give her all to her family and to the business-and the family is winning.  Needless to say, her money is not going into the business and it shows.  She does some remodeling, but doesn't finish it (walls were torn down, only to have cracks and clumps taken out of the drywall, the salon looks nice at first glance, but after a thorough look-you think it is still being remodeled).Anyway, I was just told that the hairstylists and I would have to pay rent from now on.  She wants to put all of our names on the bank account in order to make deposits and withdrawals (we would need 2 signatures in order to withdrawal).  Basically, she wants us to be responsible for the business together.One of the hairstylists is looking into forming a Corporation.  I have to pay approximately $200.00 a month (which will go up once I build up a steady clientele).  Everything will be split up amongst us (marketing, repairs, etc).I am not so sure about this arrangement.  Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this?  I don't want to turn my back on something that could turn out to be a wonderful thing. I also share a space with another massage therapist.  It is a room that is located near a bridal salon.  It isn't located on the main strip like the salon so many people don't know it's there.  I pay a perceneforum.xxxe at this place, 30%.  I haven't had any clients there yet.I am wondering if I should just forget about the salon and focus on the other facility.  But, by doing that, I know the salon will find another massage therapist and then I will be competing against yet another massage therapist.Please help me.  Any insight would be appreciated.Thank you and sorry for this message being so long.

 

[Mister Hat]

What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

First and foremost, don't worry about the other competition. Just make sure you are giving your all to your clients. Here's what happened with my spa experience...I started at an already established day spa. Their client base was slim at that point and the owner was the one bringing in most of the money. I provided my massage skills and answered the phone between clients. I wasn't asked to do much more then that. About a year into it I had many more clients. Averaging 4 or 5 clients a day and then the spa owner started taking us off the schedule so we could answer the phone more regularly. I wasn't getting paid to answer the phone and often times, she wasn't even in town. The esthetician and I ended up running the business. The freedom felt nice for a while but as business continued to grow and the owner taking more and more time off, it got old. I spent most of my waking hours "taking care of business." I got into work fairly early, left fairly late and ended up doing laundry most of the night and often on weekends. I had checked into a laundry service but didn't even have the time to get laundry to and from at the appropriate hours. I was headed for burn-out so I left the spa. It doesn't sound like anything has changed there since I left and probably never will. I got into the spa at a great time. I didn't have to do my laundry and everything was provided. Before I left, I was, with help of the esthetician, running the business without the owner and we were getting bitter about it. We resented the fact that we had to take time away from clients to sit by the phone. We were exhausted each night and clients were numbers. The spa owner would be off in another town or even another country. Of course, I had a group of dedicated clients who followed me when I opened my own office and I got a lot of experience. I was SO green when I started massage and I now feel like a professional. So I did gain from it even though it wasn't ideal. I guess my advice would be, do what feels right. You may get stuck in unpleasant situations but you can learn from those too. I probably wouldn't stick around at the budding spa if the owner still wants a part of the pie with little effort. But if you can make a go of it, sounds like you've got a good opportunity to learn about running a business and a great location. Whatever you do, make sure you get your name out there so if and when you do decide to change paths, people can find you. If you choose to go into business with the spa, get things in writing and know what happens if you decide to leave or if someone else leaves. Make sure you and the stylists are on the same page and expecting the same things. If you still don't feel right about it, get out, don't do it, use the other location.

 

[Pompal 09.]

What % is fair in lau of rent for space?

My first 'red flag' was that she wants everyone in a joint account. Don't. If you are renting space, do all of your own business affairs. Sell your own gift certificates & get paid for your appointments immediately after treatment like any other Independent Contractor.Other things about the situation described have me raisong my eyebrows too. If you are not the "owner" of the salon, why would you put yourself liable for a perceneforum.xxxe of repairs/remodelling, etc? If you do decide to go with this, you should have a very frank discussion with the owner & all others present about each others' visions for the business, etc. One may like things just as they are. One may want to turn the place into a spa. Another may be thinking in another direction entirely. Find out what repairs & needs the place has now & in the foreseeable future. This could become a money pit.Be careful for yourself, but don't be too inflexible. If you like where you are, but just feel the need for some improvements, etc, speak up on that front too. I would not enter into an agreement such as what you described. I work in a very friendly place where we all either pay rent or take commission, based on what we personally negotiate with the owner. In return, we have excellent reception & scheduling service, a clean and safe environment that meets all safety & city codes, and a really great atmosphere of happy business people who conduct their business fairly and in a friendly atmosphere. I could pay less rent for my own office, but I love the comraderie of our place. We each refer generously to one another, and truly help one another build and strengthen our client bases. Those particular features make me happy. My clients feel it, and its infectious in the best of ways.I'm not saying to bag it and run. Not at all. I just hope for you that you will all come to a better BUSINESS-like relationship. One that benefits the smooth operation of the entire salon, so you can each focus on your individual business skills & needs. A really clear foundation & set of house rules leaves lots of flexibility for the operators otherwise. for instance, if you all know clearly what's expected/required of you, you can focus your energies on the areas where your unique talents lie.Best of luck. I hope we hear more as the scenario plays out.Jill/Sagetherapist

 

[Hoadly]

Thank you Sadie and Sage for your input.  I will definitely take your advice.  This whole situation is very unstable and something needs to be done.  I know we have much to discuss.  I don't want to miss out on a great opportunity and it may turn out to be like your situation, Sage.  I really enjoy the company of the others-(when I get to see them, since I still have a FT job).  I am hoping we can make a go of this.Your input helps so that I may address certain situations that may come up.I appreciate it.Thank you!~Melanie