What makes a great massage/charging too much

[Miss Blue & Riley too.]

(note that the below is taken out of context and the origin of this post resides elsewhere, i did not make this post and the below comments are in keeping and in reply to comments made about poor massage practices. note also that this is my opinion, you dont have to agree or be rude in disagreeing. In fact this whole topic has been RETITLED! on account of 1 opinion in relation to cost of certain massage modalities and the opinion of those charging such fees.)(what a poorly moderated forum to do such a thing)

I stumbled across this site online and found this page and as a fresh massage student living and training in washington state, these comments BLOW MY MIND! so much so i had to register and comment.

I had no idea MTs actually did some of these things suchas answer phone calls and ignore your direct requests during the session and even trying to sell products.
totally shaking my head right now.

In my mind there are 2 types of MTs:
Touch Healers and Touch Billers

in other words people who entered the field to make money as a job and those who want to touch and heal and impact lives.

i choose the later.
thanks to everyone who posted their preferences and what not, its nice to get additional non verbal feedback from a place like this.

 

[Jacob B]

wow

I stumbled across this site online and found this page and as a fresh massage student living and training in washington state, these comments BLOW MY MIND! so much so i had to register and comment.

I had no idea MTs actually did some of these things suchas answer phone calls and ignore your direct requests during the session and even trying to sell products.
totally shaking my head right now.

In my mind there are 2 types of MTs:
Touch Healers and Touch Billers

in other words people who entered the field to make money as a job and those who want to touch and heal and impact lives.

i choose the later.
thanks to everyone who posted their preferences and what not, its nice to get additional non verbal feedback from a place like this.

As I said in another post... not all MT's are hippie paupers. It is great to want to help people for the sake of helping people, but come on... some of us need to eat too!

Getting money for a service is part of business, it ads to your professionalism. Your average client doesnt expect to tuck a free will offering into a basket after a massage. How many hair dressers say, "oh, just pay me what you want." How many chiros or doctors do that? What would you think of them if they did?

 

[Pompal 09.]

wow

In my mind there are 2 types of MTs:
Touch Healers and Touch Billers

in other words people who entered the field to make money as a job and those who want to touch and heal and impact lives.

And this is why so many MTs struggle to pay the bills. Look, being a "touch healer" as you call it, does not exclude making a good living. Deal with your money issues before you start practice, or they will negatively impact your ability to be fully present with your clients and focused on their well-being. You can't relax in session if you can't pay your phone bill and have bill collectors breathing down your neck.

 

[Macabre]

I agree with Breathe, GrateLakes and Dublin. I believe we should be able to make a good living as massage therapists, but I also think the best massage therapists truly care about each client and aren't in it only for the money. Maybe that's what Dublin was trying to say? If you've ever received a massage from someone who was just "going through the motions" then you've felt the difference.

 

[Lenny Kicks In!]

I agree with Breathe, GrateLakes and Dublin. I believe we should be able to make a good living as massage therapists, but I also think the best massage therapists truly care about each client and aren't in it only for the money. Maybe that's what Dublin was trying to say? If you've ever received a massage from someone who was just "going through the motions" then you've felt the difference.

Yep, there was one person in my class who just could not stop talking about the money she could charge when she got out on her own. There ARE people who are in this because they expect to make a ton of money. They are looking at the per hour fee. I believe most of us get into massage therapy because we believe in alternative care, we CARE and want to help people, and this is a way we can make a living doing what we love. They are not mutually exclusive, but when they are divided and picked between, there are going to be either care problems or money problems!

 

[jony]

wow

As I said in another post... not all MT's are hippie paupers. It is great to want to help people for the sake of helping people, but come on... some of us need to eat too!

Getting money for a service is part of business, it ads to your professionalism. Your average client doesnt expect to tuck a free will offering into a basket after a massage. How many hair dressers say, "oh, just pay me what you want." How many chiros or doctors do that? What would you think of them if they did?

What a great motivational quote i know ill remember for all time.
"getting money for a service...ads to your professionalism"

Some of you misunderstood me, its only logical that a person would train in a skill to get payed for the skill thats how society has functioned in our world for a long while now and nothing comes free (although this "hippie pauper" wishes they did).
What Blisss said about "going through the motions" is entirely true, trying to lovingly affect change by touching someones mind body spirit is different than squishing their tissue because it feels good. An untrained 12 year old can rub your back and make you feel good, i personally got into this field to affect change in people through touch on a deeper level.

That 'deeper level' does not include the rape of a clients pocketbook. Some of the rates these bodyworkers charge for their work just outright sickens me.

Clearly even some of the people on this board(to be expected) entered the field because they needed a job and they love the job as a job and love it for how much money it makes them. Their clients wellbeing comes secondary to that.

sad sad story.
[awaits thourough angry rebutles]

I appreciate Breathe's comment in regards to dealing with money issues from the start so that your touch doesnt suffer throughout your practice, thats good advice to a new MT. thank you.

What comes to mind with some of these responses though is that many MT's are interested in a "good living" through massage, and in fact a lot of peoples responses to my admission of career choice is 'oh man they make bank'
/sigh as if i started massaging to make money. growing up giving massage to friends and family i never asked for money then why would it be any different now(im wondering how many of you charge your mother for you touch, scarey).
Sure pay the bills but whats with MTs and bodyworkers charging rates of upwards of $100-200 an hour!
When did the industry become so 'corporate yuppie, drive a nice car, make a lot of money' ill say to those people screw off go work for Pfizer because you love yourself and you love your money and you DONT love people and their wellbeing.

You can help people for the sake of helping people and eat too. Its amazing how many blessings come your way when you give to give and not to recieve.
Ex. last i saw my personal MT she said there was no need to pay her for an hour+ worth of swedish/deep/cranialsacral (and she has never charged me much) so after realizing just how much some of these bastards with fancy cars charge for work i told her to bad and payed her more than usual.
She was ready to not get paid for her work and instead she receieved more. This does and will happen as you learn to trust in your giving, you will recieve more fully.

(Try it, give 1 free massage this week and see what happens, I DARE YOU)

Blessing to all, and much love.
Dublin

 

[Melorious]

wow

(Try it, give 1 free massage this week and see what happens, I DARE YOU)

If you've read so many posts on this forum, you should know that we've all learned the hard way what usually comes with giving freebies: "clients" who want more freebies.

 

[Emily B]

zomgs roflcopter

(im new to the forums)

::rolls eyes:: dont give free massage to someone who would seek to exploit you(thats a given), give it to someone you trust to appreciate the value of your gift.
i.e. a long standing client whom you respect and respects you.
Clearly someone asks for more freebies does not respect you or your practice.

Its your own dumb fault if you give a free massage to a greedy natured person and it would be wise to project that it is a one time offering/gifting of love not a habit. and thats simple enough to do.

what kind of sick person when offered a free massage then demands it again next visit. it would be wise to disengage yourself from working with that client unless you dont care who you work with cuz your just trying to pay the bills in which case you wouldnt consider giving a free massage anyways so they will have already ignored this post and moved on.

and i wasn't demanding that you give a free massage it was just a challange for the betterment of our world. do as you please by all means.

 

[smifty]

OK. Earlier in the thread, when I said I agreed with Dublin...I take it back! :roll: :

 

[L.T.M.]

I don't give free massage. And I'm one of the "bastards" who bills $100+/hour. I also charge my own clients the upper end of what the market will bear in my neighborhood.

Last year, in my second year in business, I took several hundred dollars in "adjustments" in order to provide massage on a sliding scale to someone who needed it but couldn't pay. I also worked most of the year on a severely injured woman who has her injury claim in litigation. $3000 worth of work for which I have yet to be paid, and likely will need to take an adjustment on. I also was able to donate hundreds of dollars from my business to various efforts to improve the community, relief work, and animal charities.

Do you know why, Dublin? Because I am a savvy businesswoman who does NOT "give away" free work to established clients, and also because I'm a "corporate yuppie bastard" who charges what I can get. I'll bet this year I'll make more than 95% (the workers) who work for Pfizer.

Oh yes, and I drive a brand-new fancy car. So does my husband. And we own our home. Hmmm... we also dine at nice restaurants, donate to NPR so we can attend special events (selfish, huh?) and shop at Columbia Sportswear.

And if my mother needs a massage, I'll buy her one, so she gets the best treatment possible.

Really nefarious.

I guess I love my money and don't love people and their well-being. :roll:

How insulting.

p.s., on my way back into the office to make another $200 this evening. See y'all later. :

 

[The Paranoid Android]

I love massage, and I love to help people. That is why I got into it. I want to devote as much time as possible to learning as much as possible to benefit my clients. I am still struggling with putting down roots as a professional, and setting a rate for my work. I hate to charge, especially when I get a high off of volunteering to massage folks. However:

I'm already finding in my practice that if I don't charge, my work is greatly devalued. The people I massaged for free throughout my training (advanced training included, so these weren't iffy massages), now approach me at all hours asking for free massages. I have to set boundaries. There is nothing wrong with doing something you love, as a job. In fact, I think that's the dream for most people. I wish I could devote all of my time volunteering, preferably in hospices, but I can't. I'm on a part-time deskjob income and my free time is devoted to building a practice and increasing my knowledge of my modalities. I can't afford to give of myself for free in this regard. It's just not financially feasible.

As far as pauper-vs-yuppie living goes, your clients will decide if you are worth what you charge. I've found that people who got into massage for the money won't stay long; it is boring and hard work if your heart isn't in it, and that vibe does travel through to your clients during sessions. Therapists who got into it for the sake of helping others are generally the ones who will be bolstered by word-of-mouth and become successful. There is no shame in gaining profit from your work. You've earned it. If people didn't think you were worth it, they wouldn't book with you.

I care about the people on my table. I want them to feel good, feel better, and I wish in my heart of hearts that I didn't have to charge. However, my time IS worth something. I try to spend time like I spend money: carefully, and I budget it and prioritize. I've found that feeling like I have no time on my hands is just as stressful as realizing I'm financially broke. I've found that if you treat your own time spent as worthless, others will see it that way too, and will sometimes take advaneforum.xxxe. I spent a long time as a doormat. (I hope that made sense; it probably didn't come across exactly as I hope it did.)

My friend put it very well: Clients can't buy your caring as a devoted therapist. They can, however, buy your time.

my two cents put in a very long blob.

 

[Fakename]

sad sad story.
[awaits thourough angry rebutles]

What a fantastic reply Breathe, you must really have a guilty conscious for some reason that is no business of mine.
My posts and comments were in fact not directed at YOU but again its interesting that you took it that way. self centered much? but im not here to judge just to discuss.
Looks like the type of members here are not the people i would choose to interact with on the web or in real life muchless recieve a massage from and thats to be expected or not. I did not expect to uncover what i did about people and bodyworkers, by visiting an online forum.

Its good of you to 'show your left hand what you right is doing' per say by posting your 'best of' donations of massage and money to various people and organizations on a forum. ::claps hands:: and before you rebutt that by saying 'but you did it first', my story was meant to inspire therapists not draw attention to my own giving, thats apparent in the nature of the story itself. as is what has become apparent about you through the nature of your stories.

Enjoy your National Public Radio and your fancy car i bet you clients love you lots(honesty). Its sad that you need to hyeforum.xxxolize the reverse while e-rolling your eyes to try and be witty and rude on account of my discussion of the nature of those who give and dont give within the bodywork field, from my perspective.

We are discussing opinion in this topic hence "What makes a great massage for you?" and again before you shout that i strayed from that topic ill state what should be obvious, that my comments are to reflect that i prefer a massage from a loving giving healer over a money lover who works a job to pay bills, this has everything to do with what the therapist projects. Its all about persective and id rather not have a woman such as yourself 'breathe' permeating the love of money into my flesh for an hour straight.

Best of luck with your practice 'breathe' and 'blisss' in regards to your additional comments, noted as poorly synical and know they are unwelcomed by me.

BackRubMonster on the other hand, your reply in this topic is fantasticly refreshing and possibly enough reason to stay and remain part of thie online community/forum.
Your words made total sense and i fully respect and whole heartedly agree with them, they are kind words of advice even if you hadn't intended them to be, people like myself will learn from them, so i thank you.

im done with this topic and i suspect the same of you now fully reamed individuals who sought to dispariage me for my thoughts and opinions.

Who could have known people would take a respectfully loving challenge to find just a moment of their time to give freely of themselves to someone else for the betterment of their community and mankind as a whole as a demanding and brutal attack on self. Again im guessing the rude resposes just reflected the nature of the people giving them.

Much love,
Dublin

(lesson learned, i wish i had spent the time i have spent replying to rude nasty people here giving in other ways elsewhere but perhaps this had a purpose of its own, surely i learned something myself.)

 

[fgfdgfdgfdg]

I am still a massage student and I am glad to hear that there are therapists in private practice charging at the upper ranges of what the market can bear. It is my hope to build such a sucessful practice.

I'd prefer to recieve from a massage therapist who is charging what they are comfortable with receiving for the service they are providing. In keeping with the original theme of this topic, THAT'S one aspect of what makes a massage good for me.

One of my massage business instructors also put it to me this way: when you routinely provide services that people would expect to pay for by giving it away for free or below market rate, you devalue the service to the marketplace, thereby hurting other therapist's opportunity to make a living as well.

Dublin, you are new to this board. I am new to participating, but I have lurked on these these boards for a couple of years. You have made some pretty rude judgements about people, their practices and their reasons for being in the business. You shouldn't be surprised that the reaction was equally harsh. Everyone has different reasons for getting into this field. The reasons they stay and the reasons they thrive are where there might be a little more commonality.

 

[LADY V]

Breathe, that seemed awfully defensive. While Dublin certainly was out of line for describing therapists as dumb and was not being fair perhaps insisting on one free massage a week, I'm not big on hearing people brag about their material possessions and the money they make. Imagine how you are making people feel as therapists who aren't making a good living? Or even other people? Your post is sarcastic and I think it makes you seem shallow, which is why I wouldn't go to you as a therapist. It was too much detail and too arrogant, IMO.

 

[cleric]

Dublin: Welcome to the board. A few folks have chimed in to offer their experienced take on the profession. Glad to see you have high ideals regarding where you want to go in the profession. Being a "successful" bodyworker means many things to many folks, but it is not always an easy road. Hope you can glean what seems helpful from folks offering comments here, and let what seems harsh fall to the side.

Looks like the type of members here are not the people i would choose to interact with on the web or in real life muchless recieve a massage from and thats to be expected or not. I did not expect to uncover what i did about people and bodyworkers, by visiting an online forum.

We have thousands of members, some will resonate with you, others will not. I invite you to visit/post in our Student Section.
boofdorf

 

[K M]

Honestly, that type of post would make me never go to you as a therapist.

Perfectly okay, Ace. Not enough money in the world... :

 

[James D + Sarah D]

What makes a great massage for me, is if the therapist does the absolute best they can at that moment in time, regardless of how little or how much they charge. It's always the person for me, not the fee.

What I have noticed as well since I've been reading this board, is that there is always someone who posts very few times in a provocative manner, then disappears. :? Are these people really going to be MT's?

wellnessgarden

 

[kurtiobst]

sad sad story.
[awaits thourough angry rebutles]

What a fantastic reply Breathe, you must really have a guilty conscious for some reason that is no business of mine.
My posts and comments were in fact not directed at YOU but again its interesting that you took it that way. self centered much? but im not here to judge just to discuss.

meh, I don't have a guilty conscience anymore, now that I have the ability to be a contributing member of society because I'm not worried about only having a half a loaf of bread, half a can of tuna and no money for a bus pass.

Your posts and comments were directed to this board, of which I am a member. And many of your comments are judgmental, not to mention insulting.

Looks like the type of members here are not the people i would choose to interact with on the web or in real life muchless recieve a massage from and thats to be expected or not. I did not expect to uncover what i did about people and bodyworkers, by visiting an online forum.

judgmental and insulting.

Its good of you to 'show your left hand what you right is doing' per say by posting your 'best of' donations of massage and money to various people and organizations on a forum. ::claps hands::

Judgmental.

This is a very puritanical view of money. "Money is the root of all evil." To me, money is freedom. The freedom to contribute, the freedom to help, the freedom to spend time with my family and care for my health, and rescue animals, and to care for my clients in a relaxed fashion because I am not worried about squeezing one more in so I can pay the electric bill, I don't panic if someone has an emergency and cancels and appointment, (thus preventing me from receiving that particular fee,) the freedom to broaden my skills and knowledge through continued education, (which is not cheap,) and the freedom to live my life in a way that does not encroach upon the time I give to my clients through worries about financial survival.

and before you rebutt that by saying 'but you did it first', my story was meant to inspire therapists not draw attention to my own giving, thats apparent in the nature of the story itself. as is what has become apparent about you through the nature of your stories.

Judgmental again.

I have no idea what you are talking about here, you were the one who used the term "bastards" and "corporate yuppies," for charging fairly for our services, ("fairly" instead being defined by you to a level which I would call "cheap,") and suggested that to be good caring therapists we ought to randomly "give away" sessions to anyone... apparently regardless of ability to pay. There's no "right hand/left hand" here. (Another blatantly fundamentalist attitude regarding money that will make business exceedingly difficult for you if you make it that far.)

Let me ask you, what is so heinous in my nature or the nature of my stories? Is it the fact that I make enough money to give a portion of it away? or is it just the fact that I choose not to give it away to people who can afford to pay me?

Enjoy your National Public Radio and your fancy car i bet you clients love you lots(honesty). Its sad that you need to hyeforum.xxxolize the reverse while e-rolling your eyes to try and be witty and rude on account of my discussion of the nature of those who give and dont give within the bodywork field, from my perspective.

Judgmental. It also appears to me that you are attempting to define what qualifies as "giving." Does the ACS, Charity animal hospital, homeless shelter, transitional school (for homeless children,) NPR, etc, NOT qualify as "giving?" Is "giving" only when a therapist randomly gives a freebie to a client? How sad for you. Broaden your mind a little? Oh yeah, I forgot, there's that pesky issue with financial abundance.

We are discussing opinion in this topic hence "What makes a great massage for you?" and again before you shout that i strayed from that topic ill state what should be obvious, that my comments are to reflect that i prefer a massage from a loving giving healer over a money lover who works a job to pay bills, this has everything to do with what the therapist projects. Its all about persective and id rather not have a woman such as yourself 'breathe' permeating the love of money into my flesh for an hour straight.

Judgment again. You assume that being a good businesswoman detracts from my caring and competent treatment, and because I am developing financial abundance it must mean I am a money-loving (grubbing?) mercenary, just in the profession to make a buck. Wow, the judgment is so thick you need hip waders to keep your knees clean.

Best of luck with your practice 'breathe' and 'blisss' in regards to your additional comments, noted as poorly synical and know they are unwelcomed by me.

Judgmental. Thanks, I don't need "luck" I have commonsense. As does Blisss. BTW, how is it cynical, exactly, to desire to make adequate income to be a contributing member of society?

im done with this topic and i suspect the same of you now fully reamed individuals who sought to dispariage me for my thoughts and opinions.

"reamed" huh? Well that's mighty "caring" and "loving" of you.

Who could have known people would take a respectfully loving challenge to find just a moment of their time to give freely of themselves to someone else for the betterment of their community and mankind as a whole as a demanding and brutal attack on self. Again im guessing the rude resposes just reflected the nature of the people giving them.

The problem is, you defined the only acceptable method of giving freely for the betterment of the community, leaving no room for alternatives. You seem to feel we should be poor and wanting, due to giving any small gain away. I don't know if you feel that people don't deserve financial abundance, if you have issues surrounding money, or if you're just plain so closeminded and judgmental that you can't see any logical way to "better" the community than to give away sessions or to cheap out on the fee.

By framing your definition of "giving" to mean charging far less and giving it away, you demean those of us who have created financial stability to the extent that we can afford to REALLY participate in the betterment of the COMMUNITY. Giving a session to one loyal client is NOT betterment. It's nice, but it doesn't really do anyone any good in the long run.

Be sure you don't confuse "giving" with ego-stroking. You give to that person, you look GOOD. Most people never have a clue what I (or others with financial abundance) do for the community. I post a fraction of it here to illustrate a point. The point being that your narrow definition does not take into account other ways of being a good citizen and a caring, loving person.

Your challenge was neither "respectful" nor "loving." But I suspect you don't have the ability to see why.

(lesson learned, i wish i had spent the time i have spent replying to rude nasty people here giving in other ways elsewhere but perhaps this had a purpose of its own, surely i learned something myself.)

Did you learn that people react poorly to others telling them they are selfish, money-loving, uncaring, "corporate yuppie" "bastards" if they don't give away massage, and actually earn a good living?

I didn't think so.

 

[yogazen]

You go Stacey!!!!

You always seem to say just the things that need to be said! I totally agree with you on this one! I have worked too damn hard to achieve my goals as a Massage Therapist and will never, ever give away what people can pay for,but I do donate my services to worthy cauese like disaster relief massage after Katrina down in Miss. or New Orleans, or working in a local hospital for free-this is work that I see results and appreciation for more that they could ever pay me-an cccasional chair massage or discounted table massage every now and then is ok with me,but folks I gotta pay the bills here,and cannot go in the hole trying to be a patron saint by giving my work away! I am not a self centered or money grubbing or insensitive person-- I do have business expenses that must be met!!! I am a happy therapist who loves my work,I just want fair and just compensation for it, because my schooling wasn't given to me!

Johnny

 

[Naturepants9]

wow.